And I guess all of the above justifies the murder and why not, glorifies it as well.

__________________
You take the trouble to construct a civilization, to build a society based on the principles of principle. You make government and art and realize that they are, must be, both the same. You bring things to the saddest of all points, to the point where there is something to lose. Then, all at once, through all the music, through all the sensible sounds of men building, attempting, comes the Dies Irae. And what is it? What does the trumpet sound? Up yours.

You do...if you could see the tortured life of Nancy and her family from day one, maybe you'd see where I'm coming from with my opinion. Her mother did have her in all kinds of institutions and living facilities. No drugs worked, she repelled other people except Sid. It was no surprise at all that she ended up on Heroin. I think lots of drug addicts are suffering from mental illnesses of some kind. She was just in an inordinate amount of pain and wanted out of her life since she was a kid.

Nancy's parents loved her too much for their own good. My answer would be a little violence and stuborness. You know like "fight her with her own fire". Whenever they would put her somewhere she would cry & bitch until they took her back home. She seemed more like a little brat than a schizo. She called a lot........so disconnect the phone.

The only place they took her home from was the mental ward where she was put in with adults when she was 11. She tried to kill herself when she found out the school for emotionally disturbed kids wanted to graduate her at 15 and her parents refused to let them. They didn't bring her home then.

__________________
We are sorry, the mind you have reached is not a working mind.
Please hang up and die again.
Please hang up,
And die again.

WOw- it's weird how this past Monday I got the sudden urge to resurrect my old copy that is falling apart and re-read all my favorite parts- and today I find this thread.

I also found the above picture when I googled Nancy on Monday and I was shocked. That picture must have been recently released to the public because it wasn't around four years ago when I tried looking for Nancy pics. Frankly, I think it's horrible to have a picture of her dead corpse online like this. Another blow to Nancy who was never respected in life- much less in death.

"And I don't want to live this life" - I love this book. I read it when I was 16 and I was so inspired by her guts- she moved to New York at an age that many girls are still latching on to their parents. She inspired me to pack up and leave at 19 and go to London. I did and it has been the best time of my life.

AS I read through the entire book, all my crazy assumptions about Nancy were confirmed- she was an intelligent, unique human being. I always felt that about her - I never trusted John Lydon's word against her. Also, I never felt that her mother was whining or placing the blame elsewhere. I felt like Deborah did the best she could for her day in age. It was different back then with child psychology. It was still in the dark as far as helping children overcome fear, anxiety, depression, anger. Perhaps if Nancy were to be born today she would be a much different individual. She would have a chance and a life. She was and still is totally cool in my book. And I say this as a grown individual who can assess the differenc between rock fantasy and tragic medical mishap.

Nancy- wherever you are you are beautiful and I would have given anything to drown a couple of beers with you. You are truly crowned in notorious glory!!!

http://members.aol.com/cutiepunky/index3.html

-Marilyn

i thought that book was slagged on here? maybe not. anyway, that was the first book i ever read, on my own. i really liked it a lot and had some trouble getting through parts. the one photo in the book of her, i think in a biniki is so pretty. i believe it was also nancy's favorite photo of herself as well.

you are fast becoming idiot of the month. you diss tobi vail and exault nancy spungeon? you've got it backwards.

nancy was crackers and had issues from day one. true she was cheated out of a lot during her younger days. but she wasn't a diamond in the rough. she didn't even get that far. she was universally reviled, not just by lydon. watch a punk documentary that covers london. "disgusting annoying woman named nancy spungeon" is how she's usually described.

and i have a feeling that your old pal nancy would have slashed your face with a broken glass then stole your wallet before she would have had a beer with you.

i wish we could rep, cos' you'd be getting lots of love from me.

__________________

::YAWN::

Not one single person had a good thing to say about Nancy. I mean, that's putting it kindly. Wasn't it Chrissy Hynde who actually cleaned her dirty nails with Nancy's syringe? Everyone who was around her and Sid in those days just hated her with a passion. I don't think Johnny's version was wrong in the least. I just think that the whole ordeal was tragic.

It's tragic because it's not like she was a normal person acting tough for the sake of it. If she was a bi-polar schizophrenic then her actions, for the most part, would have been uncontrollable. It was a sickness. That's what makes it tragic.

It's like taking a Bellevue patient out and putting him/her out in the normal world-. This person will not be liked by many due to mental sickness that no one but clinical doctors can understand or see. You have a bunch of punk rockers calling this Poor girl the scum of the Earth- yet it's important to realize that her mental handicap should not be cause to crucify. In fact the lifestyle and environment she ultimately surrounded herself with only helped to mask the seriousness of her mental problems. Punk rock was all about anger, aggression, shock. For Nancy- it wasn't an act - she was really fucking psychotic. This could happen to your very own child- have you ever thought about that?

-Marilyn

yeah, only like twice a day everyday.
that doesn't make nancy hero(ine) material either way, though.

I know way do i think anyone being murdered is a "great" thing. I posted my opinion and i have the right to do so. I don't give a fuck how she died, the point of the thread was to discuss the book. I'm not a fan of nancy, i never have been, the only reason why she is known is because of who she was connected to and because of the way she died.

The point of me making this thread was to discuss veiws of her by READING THE BOOK-how i find the book portrays her.

No one's calling her a hero. To point out a valid explanation for Nancy's "fucked up" behavior should serve to enlighten you guys on problems that affect MANY people. Not to glorify a woman who did not have the mental capacity to be a hero.

The fact that I like her is a matter of personal opinion and has nothing to do with what I got from the book and reading up on her.

-Marilyn

It was Johnny Rotten I heard did that. I don't think anything about the book contradicts anything bad anyone had to say about Nancy, there was a lot wrong with her and she was essentially impossible to be around. There were other things about her, but her sickness and eventually her addiction mostly drowned them out. I remember reading something Richard Hell wrote about her, saying she 'claimed to have this fantasically high iq.' I knew she wasn't lying because I'd read the book, but I can easily understand that he had no reason to believe it was true.

__________________
We are sorry, the mind you have reached is not a working mind.
Please hang up and die again.
Please hang up,
And die again.

i take issue with your holier than thou tone. "us guys" have many events and relationships in our lives that enlighten us to the human condition and its flaws. nancy spungeon being a crazy bitch doesn't affect my view on possible futures more than, say, my insane mother or scabies ridden squats i've slept in. i don't look to her as a reminder of what could happen -- i have a variety of lifetime experiences that provide just that -- and with more resonance than a notorious girlfriend of a now dead junkie that i read about in a book.

nancy was afflicted. maybe if she was born today she could have been helped. it was unfortunate she lived the short life she did. but as a person she was gross and i feel confident she wouldn't have returned your admiration.

give us some credit, professor. you are the only academic on the board. and i'm still rolling my eyes about you pissing on tobi vail for being ugly and irrelevant yet you think nancy spungeon as some kind of totem. that is seriously flawed logic. i'd love to see your point, but i don't think there's any justification that could make me understand where you are coming from with that.

do u deny Nancy Spungen couldnt have benefited from Narconon,the only statisticaly prooven drug rehab centre in the world to cure drug addiction???!!!do u deny she wasnt abused by psychiatry who put her on drugs??!!! she could have SURVIVED had there been the same congregations of Scientology accepted as a Church and a religion,as it is today.BUT it wasnt then.TIMES CHANGE.Theres MANY PROBLEMS. but Nancy Spungen didnt need to end up like this.It just makes me feel very sad that some of the most creative people some of the most successful people CANT get it all together so to speak. Now we are looking at Nancy Spungen,one of the most tragic victims of psychiatry.I'd like to point out that had her parents been practising Scientologists she'd still be alive today. She couldnt QUITE get it all together so to speak.Not the way it was done in them days.
I will not read this book.I will not have it on my shelf. This is not a book my mom will ever need to write!!! I feel so SORRY for her FAMILY,as there has been so much PAIN that has been CAUSED by this!
RIP Nancy. U never LIP

Gee, that's too bad. My internet service does not provide tone differation so I can keep healthy. Now you have more issues in your life to deal with- oh boy!

You hate Nancy, I like Nancy..Let's move on shall we?

-Marilyn

if that's what you get from what i said, sure. but that isn't my argument.

LOL!

Sweetheart's "argument":

it was unfortunate she lived the short life she did. but as a person she was gross and i feel confident she wouldn't have returned your admiration.

LOL!


Let me help you:
Argument= a fact or assertion offered as evidence that something is true.

So you want to hypothetically bring back the dead to see if she would not return my admiration? LOL

You're cute.

-Marilyn