I bought a camera (a secondhand 3yo 5d) off ebay off a local person (a middled aged balding slightly overweight short dude who is a community college tutor). Its a long story but here are the email exchanges to give you background:

ME

It was nice to meet you the other day.
The reason why I have held off leaving you feedback on ebay is that I have several concerns about the camera.

In your ebay advertisement, your claimed it was "superb condition". Further adding "The camera presents as new. The camera body is in excellent condition – as can be seen with the listing photographs. The viewfinder has 2 dust spots (not the sensor – which is dust free) and the LCD monitor has some very light scratching. Otherwise the body is in superb condition."

In our email correspondence you claimed it was "wont require servicing as it is in excellent condition".

Yet on Wednesday I noticed several things about the camera which did not match up with your claims that it was "superb" or "as new".

Firstly, the camera smelt of cigarette smoke. Because I figured you might've just had a ciggy break and the smell could've just been emanating from you, I did not wish to be rude and mention it.

However when I took it back to my office (and later, home) I showed the camera to a couple of work colleagues and my housemate and they all agreed that it definately smelt of cigarettes.

Secondly, I was not impressed at the mirror inside the camera being smudged. A fact that you did not notice yourself until I pointed it out to you twice. (My housemate even pointed out that the mirror had smoke on it)

Thirdly, whilst I did notice on the photographs there was some wear and tear on the body-parts of the outer coating worn away and I did take into consideration before bidding that the LCD was scratched which you did advertise (despite your claims of "superb") and was willing to overlook them as they are cosmetic, the fact that the mirror was smudged and the camera smells of cigarettes made me wonder how well this three year old camera was looked after.

Smoke particles can damage the insides, if it was already at the stage where the plastic body was absorbing the smell.

I wanted to seek the services of an independent professional opinion before leaving you feedback so I took the camera to a reputable camera repairer to give me an opinion.

The verdict from the repairer is that the focus screen is scratched and will need replacing.

He also recommended a service where he would also change the focus screen for me and clean the mirror in one go.

He also said that the camera was least likely to have 9000 or so actuations but more like 80,000 (as actuations can be tampered with using appropriate software). He also noted that the camera's computer chip was missing the serial number (either by being manually deleted or via corrupt software).

Whilst you did mention that I should consider changing the focus screen (and in our meeting on Wednesday even said that you were going to change it before you sold it but had to wait two weeks for one), I find it disappointing that you did not state that the screen was scratched on your original ebay advertisement, which means it *is* necccesary to change the screen. Instead you stated "The viewfinder has 2 dust spots". It was not until after I purchased the camera and asked you specific questions about servicing that you mentioned it, but still claimed it was in excellent condition.

I have to wait several days for him to order a screen for me before he can service my camera, so I won't be able to take it in until mid next week. I would not like to just leave you negative feedback without attempting to resolve this issue with you directly, especially since I enjoyed talking with you on Wednesday and you seem like a reasonable person.

However there are discrepancies between the advertised condition of the camera and the reality of the camera (I think a more accurate description would be would be "good", an opinion shared by the repairer). I would like to request that the full cost for servicing and changing the screen be borne by you.

Please let me know as soon as possible as I need this problem taken care of this week so I can use it for work and school.

HIS REPLY

thanks for your email. l am disappointed that you are less than happy with your purchase. l am indeed missing the 5D and given that you appear to be unhappy with it, would you prefer to return the camera and receive a full refund ??

My ebay listing was written in good faith and based on my experience of the camera - l believe my 100% positive feedback atests to my approach to dealings. Let me know if you would like to return the camera

MY REPLY:

I'm sorry that we do not see eye to eye on definitions of "superb" and "as new". I took the camera to an independent repairer (Shutterbox in Hartwell yesterday morning) so that you could have proof that my claims were not unreasonable.

I noted your 100% positive rating before bidding on the item and whilst that may be the case, in this instance you did misrepresent the condition of the camera.

You wrote that the viewfinder had "two dust spots". It was only AFTER I bought it and questioned you as to whether it needed a service did you admit that i "might want to change the focus screen", and when I met you to pick it up and you showed it to me, but not actually saying it was scratched and definately would need replacing (you only mentioned that you thought you'd change it for me but due to the two week wait therefor couldn't which I understood).

New/superb/excellent condition cameras do not have scratched focus screens.
New/superb excellent condition cameras do not have smudged mirrors with a smokey film covering over them.
New/superb/excellent condition cameras do not smell of cigarettes.

If you sold the camera as "good condition" and was upfront that the focus screen had more than just "two dust spots" and needed replacing in your advertisement and serviced the camera (in your advertisement you claimed the censor was clean..based on my issues with your claims I am going to assume that your claims of a clean censor are from using the camera's menu option to clean this, not a professional censor clean by a technician from a place like Camera Clinic/Shutterbox, etc), then you would not be receiving an email from me about this as these things would've been made clear in the advertisement and I would not have been under any illusions that I would have to spend a bit of extra money to ensure the camera was in tip top condition for work/school.

Being as you did not do any of those things, then I cannot trust your claims of 'good faith'. That or your definition of new/superb/excellent condition is very different to mine, my housemate's, my classmates/tutor or Shutterbox (who said, in his 15 years of experience repairing cameras it was "good" condition, definately not excellent or as new).

I should also point out there is nothing wrong with "good" condition, the camera *is* three years old and has been used by two people in its lifespan. As I even said to you on Wednesday, the scratch on the lcd and the various wear and tear of the body didn't bother me as it was cosmetic.

What is wrong and what I am annoyed/disappointed with is that it was advertised as "excellent" "as new".

All I requested from you was for you to bear the cost of a full service and replacing the focus screen (approx $250), purely because you have completely misrepresented the condition of the camera and I believe that I should not have to pay for that.

However it seems that you are missing the camera and feel you made a mistake selling it, then perhaps we do need to call this quits and I should accept your offer for a full refund and return the camera.

If that is the case, please deposit a full refund into my paypal or, better yet, bank account ASAP, as I have now wasted a week of my time on this purchase and will need to now look for another camera because I to do some even photography this week.

I took the refund. I decided that his denials sullied the whole thing and that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the camera, wondering if in a year's time I'd be up for several hundred dollars worth of repairs for something.

He actually fucked my refund up, too. He did Send Money instead of Issue Refund on paypal which would mean I got slugged 3.4% on something I never bought, so I refused it. Unfortunately he got slugged the $52 instead, and has to deposit it in my bank account in two lots as his account has an upper limit.

I do feel bad for him that now he's lost $52 trying to sell his own damn camera, but he could've called PayPal and explained that he stuffed up and if they could fix it.

Here is my question:
once the money is returned and the camera returned, is it valid, in your opinion, to leave the feedback as neutral, such as:

"Friendly & fast to deal with however misrepresented condition eg 2 dust spots were actually scratches, body was “good” not “as new” (verified independently). Responded quickly to void deal and offered prompt refund."

Is that valid? I think its fair to say he was fast and easy to deal with, and that he was good at offering a refund, but I feel it is important to mention that he did misrepresent the condition of the camera, which I got validated by the repairer. What do you think?

haha, i had some fucking psycho give me negative feedback once because i gave her negative feedback...and she was really threatening about it. i'll post her emails if you want cos they're hilarious. bitch could hardly speak english.

i think your feedback sounds really good. i'd probably be way angrier and less level-headed about it but it's good that you're being calm about it!

I've never used ebay but I reckon what you've suggested writing there is completely reasonable. And neutral seems fair in this case.

__________________
Deux hommes font une promenade amicale. L'un des deux porte un parapluie à son bras.
Il se met à pleuvoir. L'homme n'ouvre pas son parapluie et l'autre lui demande pourquoi.
- Parce que ça ne servirait à rien, lui répond son ami. Il est plein de trous.
- Alors, pourquoi l'as-tu pris?
- Parce que je ne pensais pas qu'il pleuvrait.

Anytime you leave less than positive feedback, you will almost certainly receive the same or worse back, including negative comments under your original feedback. I don't see how there is any question to the validity of your leaving neutral. However, as a result of you purchasing a product in good faith, not to mention your time and effort consulting with professionals and co-workers, your own feedback score will almost surely take a loss. Thus rendering the process a bit flawed if not fucking useless.
Ebayer buyer beware.

__________________
albert, you are the father

If he wasn't so ready to help you out with your "unsatisfactory purchase" he should have got a neg. Neutral is very fair.
He should have had it analysed by a pro to have an accurate non-biased description rather than you having to get it looked at to give an accurate assessment.

i have no idea why i enjoyed reading that so much. maybe just a weird peek into others' lives. or maybe your use of "whilst."

but yeah, i think neutral is totally fair.

and cheshire cat, PLEASE post those emails.

i think you are safe giving a neutral feedback, especially because you are being honest.

a few weeks back i had bought these boots on ebay and the shipping was $15.99 for priority mail, so i figured id have them no later than a week.

well 3 weeks went by and after no response on many emails, i called the company that was selling them and asked them what was going on. they said "oh, there was a mix up, etc your boots will be going out this week..." so i asked them to atleast reimburse me for shipping and they only gave me back $9.99...i was kind of mad that they didnt email me and say there was a mix up and were hesitant to give me back the shipping charges, so i left a neutral feedback saying the boots were as described but they took almost a month to get here and there was no effort on their part to tell me what happend with the "mix up".

and they left ME neutral feedback saying "amazingly still not happy with $9.99 refund". i was livid...i payed SAME DAY. i contacted them to withdrawl the feedback and they did, but they still didnt see anything wrong with the transaction.

you know what I hate. cocksucker sellers wait until you've given them feedback before they give you it. If I buy something and pay for it instantly (as I always, always do) then what more do the want? I've done my bit. but no, they wait until you've bigged them up for sending it on time and it being as described.

__________________
If you ever feel useless and depressed, remember: one day you were the fastest spermatozoon of all.

well you know what they are like, some ebayers are almost as anal about feedback as KR people are about reps.

I believe you are being more than fair. I never worried too much about my feedback on Ebay but then again I have only purchased never sold.

I agree with RomanNoseJob though about sellers waiting to post feedback until you as a buyer post yours. That's bullshit. I always pay the same day. I don't keep track of my feedback but maybe I will now just to see.

I should point out he has already given me feedback -positve as agreat communicator/fast to deal with etc.

Yeah I hate when shop people wait for you to feedback them first so they can retaliate.

I will actually tell him straight to his face that he will get neutral only. Whilst I recognise in the first instance he was fast a riendly to deal with and did offer a prompt refund, the fact is he still stands by his exaggerated claims and they were lies.

he gave a shady descrition, give him neg feedback. People don't want to neg on ebay for some reason-- and what happens is you get a camera that smells like smoke and has the serial number removed (sketchy!). Get your money back and leave a neg or a neutral but be sure to leave that the camera was not as described. false feckin advertising.

xoxo

oh, this same thing happened to me!! except the guy blamed the post office and said i would have to pay shipping AGAIN because the shoes got returned to him no such address, and he swore i gave him the wrong address.
bullshit!!! they took a month to come!
i was not about to pay shipping twice, paying for everything once was quite enough

__________________
first impressions are cheap auditions
situations are long goodbyes

haha. okay. the ones in bold are hers.
i knew it'd be good if i kept them.

Hi,

I still have not received the dress and I paid for it almost a week ago, I was just wondering if there has been any complications? Did I forget to send you my address? If so, sorry! I have included the following information which I hope is helpful.

Thank you,

me


Hi there, could you please tell me the date that you paid, because '
have never receive an email from you saying that you have paid
Cheers


I paid on the 7th of November but no I did not email you.

then she didn't reply for like three days...so i wrote this, rather angrily:

Have you sent my dress yet? I paid ten days ago and I still have not received it.

Regards,

me

Hi there, because you didn't send me an email after you made the
payment, i thought that you haven't paid, so i will courier this to
you on monday, sorry for the delay
Cheers

seriously, this was like twelve days after i'd paid for the stupid thing...

hi i am sorry to hear that you pleaced me a bad feedback and my apologise again, cos in my payment instruction i have been said that ''Include the reference number in your deposit details'' i havae many payment to received everyday so if you use your name or other num, confirmation of payment might be delay I realized it has caused you big inconvenience, so I did my best to meet your request. Would you please try to understand from my position, a negative feedback can cause me more than just inconvenience, would you please consider to change my negative feedback? Thank you

I did put the reference number on my deposit. I'm sorry but I won't be changing my feedback.

i was pretty angry by this point.

sorry about the delay, but i have to indicate you that i did put a lot of work to find your reeference which is not written properly in the deposit bag, it took me a week to find out the exact detail of you , which i could do it right away, i would not say it is your fault to not follow my instruction which has caused both of our inconvenience, in order to made our trading easier and happier next time, please make sure you have done what buyer should do and i will make sure to compete a seller's responsibility. can you consider to change my feedback because it is really unfair for me, meanwhile i will put good word for you too. thank you

regards

That is the correct deposit, yes. I am sure that I copied the auction reference number correctly. I'm sorry but I feel that I'm completely justified and what I wrote is true. Most buyers do not require an email indicating payment as the deposit itself and the reference number should suffice. I am not on the internet very often, therefore I do not have much time for emails. I believe that all a buyer is required to do is pay promptly, include a reference number, and place appropriate feedback and I did all of that.

Yes, that is the correct deposit, PLEASE CHECK YOUR PAYMENT BELOW, where is REFERENCE? i only can see BAG #3420751, NO AUCTION NUMBER, NO REFERENCE!, how can i know that is your payment? i said i spent much more time on this trade also, not only you, i worked a lot DUE TO WRONG REFERENCE, why you do not understand this??????????finally you got the bargain , you just need to waitng, but me, i have been finding your payment everyday! i am not suppose to get this unfair feedback,iyes, Most buyers do not require an email indicating payment as the deposit itself and the reference number should suffice, if you did not email, how can i know that is your payment???? IF YOU PUT AUCTION NUMBER AS REFERENCE it would not be delay.
it is just a very simple problem, i sent your top once you indicated your payment , why i had to get negotive feedback? PLEASE THINKING ABOUT GIVING, NOT ONLY TAKING!

What you are saying and doing is inappropriate. Please do not email me again. I did put a reference number on there and if the bank messed something up I am not going to be held responsible. No amount of threats is going to make me change my feedback so please stop emailing me. I don't care if you leave me negative feedback, JUST STOP EMAILING ME.

NOT MY PROBLEM IF BANK MISSED OUT, WHY I SHOULD PAY FOR BANK'S MISTAKE, I WILL GIVE YOU NEGOTIVE FEEDBACK AS WELL, LET ALL TRADER KNOW, HOW TERRIBLE YOU ARE AND NOT UNDERSTANDING PERSON, SICK OF $6 ONLY

Well you've certainly earned your negative feedback now.

I only left a guy neutral once after he sold me a BOOTLEG copied dvd which he advertised as official and he left me negative although I paid him the instant the auction was over and hardly complained. UGH. I HATE ebay but still use it

I probably wouldn't leave feedback at all, but it's really all up to you.

Then fuck him! Leave NEG feedaback