I've Become A Scientologist - Page 3

thisbytes · #41 09-06-2008, 06:05 PM

On a related note, whatever became of FunHappyGal?

Ophiel · #42 09-06-2008, 06:08 PM

http://kittyradio.com/soapbox/gossip...tml#post783436

Her last post. Not really going out on a bang, is it.

Ophiel · #43 09-06-2008, 06:30 PM

Wise beard man - Encyclopedia Dramatica

This guy knows.

OneBreath · #44 09-06-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel

They may have changed their practises then. Certainly for a long time, it was only after attending such courses and auditing (paid for, natch) that information about the religion was revealed. Therefore, they paid for the information, QED. The church may, if it has any sense, realise that all of such doctrines can now be found on-line, but you must be aware that that has not always been the case.

I'd also ask why you think so many former Scientologists would lie about the religion being an unscrupulous corporate enterprise if there was no truth in that?

Or, for that matter, why someone who has been so ardently opposed to religion for 4 years, experiencing firsthand how it can isolate people from communities and societies, has decided to join a religion that is notorious for doing exactly that, and which deals with dissenting voices with legal action, regarding dissenters as "fair game", etc., rather than merely snubbing them or, god forbid, just turning the other cheek? You have been critical of religious nonsense before; why is this particular brand of nonsense any different?

Many ex-scientologists who claim that are people who said they had a negative experience that wasn't even related to money.

Scientology as a whole is a completely different religion, and if you don't understand that then you won't understand why it gets so much hate. Scientology practices were initially rejected as a valid form of medical technique because of it's unorthodox beliefs about the set of ideas regarding the relationship between the spirit, mind and body, which obviously differs very much from they way convential Western mediciene is run and labeled a "pseudoscience". It is this reason that the only way a person is able to seek to heal themselves in a spiritual manner in a broad way is through some type of religion.

Scientology does not offer or require a person to believe in a certain dogma. It allows people to be Scientologist while practicing other religions, it is far from exclusive.

In regards to "fair game", There was an early policy called "fair game" that was cancelled in 1968. The purpose of that policy was to make it known that a person who has left the Church was no longer entitled to the privileges of membership. Now anytime someone misrepresents Scientology and is subject to litigation people call it "fair game". Plenty of other religious organizations have done the same, but they don't get even half the misrepresentation and biased press that Scientology gets.

OneBreath · #45 09-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thisbytes

Umm didn't L. Ron Hubbard himself even say this is how you make a million dollars, by starting a cult?

No, this was said by George Orwell. This is a very common misconception that has varying times, dates, location of allegation. In addition people have signed affadavits claiming that was false.

Ophiel · #46 09-06-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

Many ex-scientologists who claim that are people who said they had a negative experience that wasn't even related to money.

Yes, that is indeed true. They also said that they had negative experiences relating to other aspects of the Church's practises. Is there any point in me telling you what any of those are at this stage, or will you just write that off as "misrepresentation" too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

'In regards to "fair game", There was an early policy called "fair game" that was cancelled in 1968. The purpose of that policy was to make it known that a person who has left the Church was no longer entitled to the privileges of membership. Now anytime someone misrepresents Scientology and is subject to litigation people call it "fair game". Plenty of other religious organizations have done the same, but they don't get even half the misrepresentation and biased press that Scientology gets.

That's because no-one should be subject to litigation for "misrepresenting Scientology", any more than you should be subject to litigation if you said that Jesus was a cunt or that the Pope is a rapist on some crappy on-line forum. The Church of Scientology reacts in a totally disproportionate fashion to criticism - disproportionate irrespective of whether the criticism is founded. That is to say, even if people were telling 100% lies about the Church, it still over-reacts, in an infantile, aggressive and unnecessary fashion.

Here is just one example:

Crimes - Encyclopedia Dramatica

I would like you, at this point, to explain a couple of things:

if the Church of Scientology has nothing to do with religion, why is it called the Church of Scientology? I am well aware that there are other factions of Scientology outside the Church, but please explain to me why something with no religious content whatsoever would call itself a Church?
Even if every single bad thing about Scientology is just meanie meani made up propaganda made up by meanies and CRIMINALS, EVEN THEN: why would you want to be a Scientologist? Even if it's not a religion, even if everything I've heard about child abuse, hypnosis, disconnection, fraud, illegal surveillance and so on are ALL lies, and even if all the absolute factual inaccuracies in Scientology's doctrinal claims are absolutely true and all laws of chemistry, physics and biology need to be rewritten around them; EVEN THEN: why do YOU, Nina, an intelligent girl who is isolated from her peers, prone to depression and over-reaction, but nevertheless a young girl with a promising future ahead of her if she puts her mind to it, want to be a Scientologist?
And why do they want you?

The fact is, you don't need a religion. So why is it even important that Scientology is "no worse than other religions"? You don't need one, so it's not a case of having to pick the least shit one, is it?

As an appendix, here is my friend's account of his interview for an administrative position at the Church:

Quote:

When I went to the scientology outlet in Plymouth, England, I had a long discussion with one of the women there. I told her I had read dianetics and I genuinely believe that psychiatry has a lot of philosophical problems inherant in it. The system's incentivised towards creating a need, a market, for pharmacuticals. This only applies in private healthcare really but very few trained psychologists/psychiatrists do not regularly go under evaluation for their practices. There are some 'what is crazy?', 'what is a chemical imbalance in the brain?' questions and of course there is over-prescription in places. We spoke about this for a while and she didn't have a clue about half the names I was mentioning (esp. a guy clled Robert Laing whose story is interesting) which immediately sounds alarm bells in my mind. We carry on talking and In say 'I expect there's a lot of admin work in the Church' 'yes, you wouldn believe!' Well I was looking for work' '....oh well what do you want to do?' 'Well office work' 'Right well obviously we want to make sure that you are as emotionally healthy as possible before you start helping others' 'Wut?' 'you want to help others don't you?' 'yes but I just want some office work-' 'Well you have to go through an audit first' '...right' 'I'll tell you what, why don't we just give you a little test<this test is available online>...' I took the test. Turns out I'm not very good at communicating.... which is strange because neither were the reporters on the undercover bbc report or PBS News. I was led <they don't like to leave you alone because then you start to think for yourself> into a room after where there was a women obviously doing some roleplay with a CoS member. The woman was trying to encourage the man to grow. 'You want to be a big flower don't you?' she was saying in a very uncertain voice. 'This is one of our communication sessions' the CoS woman said. I have done a performance degree and this was a faux applied theatre excercise but it seemed like they were breaking all the rules when it came to psychodrama; the 'flower'guy said 'You couldn tell your child what to do so what chance do you have of telling me?!' I could sense this was an actually memory that this guy was tredging up and later found out that scientology often asks its members to be completelly frank about sexual fantasies, traumatic memories etc. I said 'um, is there an application form or something I could fill in and get back to you?' 'Yes, I'll just fetch one' a minute later... 'you'll love some of the questions at the end! haha!' I looked and they were qs about elctroshocktherapy, drugpushing, medication taking <prohibiting all of the above as well as being a journalist!> I asked her '... why do you need my passport number and my car's liscence plate number?' 'Well as you know we're a global organisation.... so....' 'So is McDonalds though' 'Yeah, but that's why the passport things there, and the liscence plate thing is if you want parking priviledges' '...aah I see so if I don't have a car or a passport then I wouldn have to fill that in?' Well you must have a passport to join because we sometimes offer lucky members of the church to attend [I didn quite catch the word she used] on board ships off the coast of America and it's obviously the perfect place because you are so far away from anybody but those who are clear yknow?' 'Yeah <It started to remind me of the ships they use to 'transport' US detainees in: they basically torture ppl they cant put in guantanamo, not that torture is what they do probably but the point is _international waters_=no law> she then said 'yknow if we could even get a quater of the world clear the effect on the remainder would be just fantastic

, not that we wanna take over the world or anything! hahhaaa!' <I'm not even fucking joking!- I have these words recorded on my phone!> 'mmmmmmm, can I take this away and fill it in at home?' 'um yes, but you're interested?' 'very' I left and called back a couple of days later 'Hi there, I went to the citizens Advice Bureau and they said that you shouldn have to have out such private details to any employer especially not under signature' 'really? I don't know why theyd say that, you know there is a confidentiality clause in the Church?' 'So that you won't reveal my details to people?' '....yes, and to protect the knowledge we have because we don't want the military getting hold of our healing techniques' 'ah like the buddist monks who wouldn teach the SAS how to meditate to keep themselves warm?' '...................yes it's alot like that really......... have you actually commited any crimes?' 'I'm sorry?' 'because if you have you can't join' 'yes no I haven committed any crimes, I just want to know about the church before I sign anything' 'Are you a journalist? because you have to inform me if you are recording this phone call, legally' 'I'm not a journalist and would it matter if I was recording the call? what would you have said differently' 'have you molested children?' 'WHAT?' 'you obviously have crimes, I can here it in your voice, and you're a journalist!' ..........'So you don't want me to work in your office?''[hangs up]'
Moral of story: don't sign _shit_ especially not after a counselling session, buddist monks dont ask you to sign anything, and psychologists KNOW that you will sign anything in a state like that <the state of euphoria can also be acheived by passing 1 Coulomb of charge through the body. The E-meter passes this thru the body and gives you a neurotransmitter high which results in a hangover eventually, which is why electroshock therapy is addictive> There was a film she said she would show me if I joined that 'wouldn be on the internet'. Why not? I don't agree with all of what the church says but I don't know a single religion that charges you money to progress to enlightenment or whatever and THAT is the fucked up thing. You want to be in the church?- It's a commitment to something which is secret; ie something you don't know about! Believe what you like but you could buy a multimeter and find the methods by which they work online FOR FREE!
My name is Jonathan _______ and I studied Psychology at Hatfield University but you don't need to to think 'HMMMM IS TOM CRUISE A GOOOD COMMUNICATOR OR DOES HE FRIGHTEN THE SHIT OF PPL?'

Food for thought, there.

Ophiel · #47 09-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

No, this was said by George Orwell. This is a very common misconception that has varying times, dates, location of allegation. In addition people have signed affadavits claiming that was false.

You know that, even if someone has a legal document saying that something never happened, it can still have happened, right?

And you know that quotes can be attributed to a number of people and still be said by all of them (e.g. George Orwell, Kurt Cobain, Neil Young and I believe Schopenhaur can all be cited as saying that thing about how it's "better to burn out than fade away), right?

And, more importantly, you know that even if it was absolutely proven that L Ron Hubbard never ever ever said that starting a religion would be a great way to make money, that doesn't prove his innocence of doing so, even slightly, especially when just about all other evidence points to him doing EXACTLY that, right?

thisbytes · #49 09-06-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

No, this was said by George Orwell. This is a very common misconception that has varying times, dates, location of allegation. In addition people have signed affadavits claiming that was false.

Did George also say this:

L. Ron Hubbard's philosophy, Scientology, and the Church of Scientology that he founded are controversial. Some documents written by Hubbard himself suggest he regarded Scientology as a business, not a religion. In one letter dated April 10, 1953, he says calling Scientology a religion solves "a problem of practical business," and status as a religion achieves something "more equitable...with what we've got to sell." In a 1962 official policy letter, he said "Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors."

^But then, every religion seems to work on that basis these days. Just look at Pat Robertson and his crashed lear jet in that lake. The poor dear.

OrangeSapphire · #50 09-06-2008, 11:05 PM

Not to hate on your religion...

from: Scientology

Quote:

The auditing process is accomplished through the use of a specialized electronic gizmo exclusively manufactured by and for the church. The device is called an "electropsychometer" or E-Meter for short. The E-Meter measures galvanic skin response -- fluctuations in electrical resistance on the surface of the skin -- and is pressed into service as a crude lie detector of sorts. (A genuine polygraph machine measures blood pressure and rate of breathing, in addition to changes in skin resistance.) Before he transformed his business into a religious organization, Hubbard marketed the E-Meter as a bona fide piece of medical equipment. He claimed it could be used to cure a variety of diseases, until the Food and Drug Administration cracked down on his quackery in 1963.

bort · #51 09-06-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeSapphire

from: Scientology

Is it wrong for me to want an e-meter? I think it'd be a cool thing to have, to show and tell your visitors about. It'd be even cooler than an iron lung! But not as cool as a Dalek...

Zindy · #52 09-07-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

It's less than what's been spent the past few years combined of therapy.

Well, be careful... I don' think thoose people has the best intentions and they are looking for weak people to manipulate.

Ophiel · #53 09-07-2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bort

Is it wrong for me to want an e-meter? I think it'd be a cool thing to have, to show and tell your visitors about. It'd be even cooler than an iron lung! But not as cool as a Dalek...

Or a tazer.

Does anyone know if that thread FHG did where she was giving us all on-line tests for free (and getting really pissed off that we weren't eternally grateful) is still archived?

Reason I'm asking is that, if that's anything to go by, the E-meter doesn't even have to do anything, as ticking all yeses or all nos gave exactly the same result: YOU ARE REALLY FUCKED UP AND DEPRESSED AND FULL OF ENTURBULATION. MAYBE YOU'D LIKE A RELIGION?

bort · #54 09-08-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel

Or a tazer.

Tasers are a dime a dozen, I'm secretly convinced. Though "tase" is one of my favourite possibly-not-real-verbs. How come people never "lase" with lasers?

Ophiel · #55 09-08-2008, 12:51 PM

I now want to know if tazer/taser comes from the same origin as "laser" "maser" "paser" and "sonar". MAYBE SCIENTOLOGY HAS THE ANSWERS.

beverly thrills · #56 09-08-2008, 01:56 PM

uh wait wait wait

You're going to tell your PSYCHIATRIST?
I mean. I know you've been seeing one for a while, but don't let word get out to your fellow scientolotards or they'll kidnap you and leave you to die in a hotel in California.

Srsly.

OneBreath · #57 09-08-2008, 05:09 PM

Considering Im going to stop seeing him before I join the church that won't be a problem

Ophiel · #58 09-08-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBreath

Considering Im going to stop seeing him before I join the church that won't be a problem

Hang on, you're going to stop seeing the psychiatrist that you were on about practically being in love with before, the guy who is the nearest thing you have to a friend? You're going to give that up so you can join the Church of Scientology?

WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES, NINA?
WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?