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08-08-2008, 10:40 AM
|  | pioneering new emotions | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: nTown, UK
Posts: 4,580
| | | Is there anything that cannot be known?
Just wonderin'.
A lot of spiritual dudes claim they just became enlightened with knowledge that science cannot replicate through its process of enquiry, but is there anything that no-one can ever know?
Also cocks. |
08-08-2008, 11:38 AM
|  | doesn't like a fuss | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: waiting for my man..
Posts: 502
| | | Nah I pretty much know it all.
__________________
You fell down of course, and then you got up of course and started over. Forgot my name of course, then you started to remember. |
08-08-2008, 11:42 AM
|  | Running Blind | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Frozen Garden
Posts: 4,856
| | | Nah... i got google and Wikipedia to get me thru
__________________ "Calling Your Name I Hear Only Echoes Searching The Rain I See Only Shadows You've Got To Show Me Your Face... Voices I Hear Them Calling Behind Me Phantoms Of You Are Burning Inside Me You've Got To Give Me A Sign...." (Running Blind, t.A.T.u.)
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08-08-2008, 11:47 AM
|  | Job Hand | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: burbs, UK
Posts: 2,293
| | | Well, some people say God is unknowable - but then again you get to know God's love thru prayer...so I dunno really I don't...
__________________ Ezekiel 33:33 Rev 13:16 Lev 11:7 Forums Last FM
ن٥ﻻ ﻉ√٥ﺎ ٱ |
08-08-2008, 12:59 PM
|  | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | there are some things in maths that they're proved cannot be known. if you can't know things in something as cut and dried as maths, surely it must be worse in the woolly real world |
08-08-2008, 01:12 PM
|  | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,990
| | | The rational mind is restrained by the 4 dimensions of space and time. Mathematics theorizes multiple dimensions, but we cannot "know" them, or prove they exist with our limited logical abilities. Mystics can discern beyond the rational/logical mind, but these truths cannot be understood, really, by anyone who hasn't had a mystical/religious experience. Art is very much a vehicle for expressing these vagarities, for the imaginal mind has greater capabilities to apprehend these universal truths. There are methods for empirical study, but then again statistics are always at the mercy of interpretation. There are spiritual practices which can lead one to these realities, yet there is no guarantee that even the masters are leading others to discover alternate realities and dimensions.
"Truth is a lonely path; and difficult to prove; whereas, delusion is easily bought and sold"
~~carefulcarpenter
__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter |
08-08-2008, 01:26 PM
|  | KR: gay pms | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: almost there
Posts: 1,336
| | | I guess the answer to that question is something that can never be known. |
08-08-2008, 01:30 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sophia_ The rational mind is restrained by the 4 dimensions of space and time. Mathematics theorizes multiple dimensions, but we cannot "know" them, or prove they exist with our limited logical abilities. [more stuff] | not really. the rational mind is capable of understanding all kinds of dimensions and abstract spaces. that's what most of mathematics and quite a bit of physics does every day.
it's our common or garden intuition that is restrained by our everyday experience of three dimensions.
proving material things exist isn't really mathematics' job, it's partly the job of physicists, but in an everyday sense. it's not the ontology of metaphysics.
everything else you've said is neither a raven nor a writing desk |
08-08-2008, 01:53 PM
| | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,990
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by kesh  not really. the rational mind is capable of understanding all kinds of dimensions and abstract spaces. that's what most of mathematics and quite a bit of physics does every day.
it's our common or garden intuition that is restrained by our everyday experience of three dimensions.
proving material things exist isn't really mathematics' job, it's partly the job of physicists, but in an everyday sense. it's not the ontology of metaphysics.
everything else you've said is neither a raven nor a writing desk | By twisting the words you have demonstrated the rational mind's inability to experience these dimensions. A mystic would have asked a question or intuited a koan in response; an artist would have created a piece of art; a poet a vivid mental picture. Your plagiarized "everything else you've said is neither a raven nor a writing desk" was a close copy of an original thought, but not much more than the ego using the rational mind as a crutch. Dig deeper. I'd be interested to read some of your creative works. Quote:
Why is a raven like a writing desk?
18-Apr-1997
Dear Cecil:
This is something that drives me crazy every time I hear it: "Why is a raven like a writing desk?" Is there really a hilarious answer to this seemingly impossible riddle? Or is the hilarious part that there really isn't an answer? Also, where did this riddle originate? --Mary, via the Internet
Dear Mary:
This riddle is very famous, although it is the rarefied kind of fame that entails most people never having heard of it. It comes from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. Alice is at the tea party with the March Hare, the Mad Hatter, and the Dormouse, when apropos of pretty much nothing the Hatter pops the question above. Several pages of tomfoolery ensue, and then:
"Have you guessed the riddle yet?" the Hatter said, turning to Alice again.
"No, I give it up," Alice replied. "What's the answer?"
"I haven't the slightest idea," said the Hatter.
"Nor I," said the March Hare.
Alice sighed wearily. "I think you might do something better with the time," she said, "than wasting it in asking riddles that have no answers."
|
__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter
Last edited by Sophia_ : 08-08-2008 at 02:08 PM.
|
08-08-2008, 02:06 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | which words did i twist?
i stayed away from your spiritual stuff and just corrected a few things you said about maths
i'm not a mystic or a poet or an artist.
but i gave you a koan ffs. well almost |
08-08-2008, 02:20 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | oh you edited.
i was hoping you'd catch the ball i threw, that lewis carroll's profession was mathematician, and not dis the math
but yeah i'll dig deeper, try to not prop up my ego, not twist your words, and all the other stuff you recommend
am i allowed to untwist them? |
08-08-2008, 02:26 PM
| | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,990
| | | There are answers to the Carroll riddle, but I believe the author's intention was to lure the reader's mind into the rabbet hole of imagination and playfulness.
__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter |
08-08-2008, 02:30 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | possibly, but as he was a mathematician with a rational mind i highly doubt it. i think he had an inability to experience those dimensions.
apparently carroll's answer was.
"because it's almost never turned the wrong way round".
or words to that effect. but the publishers took it out as they didn't understand it |
08-08-2008, 02:44 PM
|  | *Cherry Bomb* | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: L.A.
Posts: 518
| | | i don't think anyone really knows what happens after they die.
i have some ideas, theories from Seth Material.
Deepak Chopra says we (and animals) are transient spirits. that sounds about right to me.
i have vivid dreams, sometimes lucid, it's a little peak into the sea of possibilities. |
08-08-2008, 02:58 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | chopra was a hindu originally. i'm quite into hinduism 
what?! |
08-08-2008, 03:06 PM
| | *Cherry Bomb* | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: L.A.
Posts: 518
| | | i know you didn't mean it that way. you had nazis holding the swastika cake. |
08-08-2008, 03:16 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | hindu nazis! every one of them |
08-08-2008, 03:18 PM
| | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,427
| | | or maybe they were visiting subhas chandra bose on his birthday |
08-08-2008, 04:49 PM
|  | chanel meth pipe. | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: 7th ring of hell?
Posts: 1,564
| | | wow i thought this was going to be a sophia thread.
turns out it was just a sophia magnet.
__________________ if you dont believe youre dying then i wont tell you that youre dying but do you not believe youre dying just because it gets you down? |
08-08-2008, 09:55 PM
|  | kitschy minger | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: the medusa cascade
Posts: 4,066
| | |
