Sufism

Sophia_ · #1 01-14-2008, 05:03 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Etymology

The conventional view is that the word originates from Suf (???), the Arabic word for wool, referring to the simple cloaks the early Muslim ascetics wore.[4] However, not all sufis wear cloaks or clothes of wool. Another etymological theory states that the root word of Sufi is the Arabic word safa (???), meaning purity. This places the emphasis of Sufism on purity of heart and soul.

Others suggest the origin is from "Ashab al-Suffa" ("Companions of the Porch") or "Ahl al-Suffa" ("People of the Porch"), who were a group of Muslims during the time of the Prophet Mohammad who spent much of their time on the veranda of the Prophet's mosque devoted to prayer. Yet another etymology, advanced by the 10th century author Al-Biruni is that the word, as 'Sufiya', is linked with Sophia, the Greek term for "wisdom" - although for various reasons this derivation is not accepted by many at the present.

In the introduction to The Sufis, Idries Shah writes that the word Sufi has no known etymology. In a few different languages, the word takes the form Sufi (Arabic: ????, ta?awwuf - Kurdish: 'sofîtî, f' - Persian: ????, Sufi gari - Turkish: 'Tasavvuf') or Irfan (Arabic/Persian: ?????) have been suggested.

Basic beliefs

The essence of Being/Truth/God is devoid of every form and quality, and hence unmanifested, yet it is inseparable from every form and phenomenon either material or spiritual. It is often understood to imply that every phenomenon is an aspect of Truth and at the same time attribution of existence to it is false. This apparent paradox of the relationship of creator and created is the basis of Sufi metaphysics. The chief aim of all Sufis then is to let go of all notions of duality, including a conception of an individual self, and to realize the Divine unity.

Sufis generally teach in personal groups, as the counsel of the master is considered necessary for the growth of the pupil. They make extensive use of parable, allegory, and metaphor, and it is held by Sufis that meaning can only be reached through a process of seeking the truth, and knowledge of oneself. Although philosophies vary among different Sufi orders, Sufism as a whole is primarily concerned with direct personal experience, and as such may be compared to various forms of mysticism such as Hesychasm, Zen Buddhism, Gnosticism and Christian mysticism.

A significant part of Oriental literature comes from the Sufis, who created books of poetry containing the teachings of the Sufis. Some of the more notable examples of this poetry is Attar's Conference of the Birds and Rumi's Masnavi.

Ophiel Ophiuci · #2 01-14-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

Yet another etymology, advanced by the 10th century author Al-Biruni is that the word, as 'Sufiya', is linked with Sophia, the Greek term for "wisdom" - although for various reasons this derivation is not accepted by many at the present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

Although philosophies vary among different Sufi orders, Sufism as a whole is primarily concerned with direct personal experience, and as such may be compared to various forms of mysticism such as Hesychasm, Zen Buddhism, Gnosticism and Christian mysticism

Colours are fun. You're still not a Muslim though.

Sophia_ · #3 01-14-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci

Colours are fun. You're still not a Muslim though.

Colors are fun--and you chose a complimentary color. Thanks!

I have'nt put such labels on my beliefs. I didn't know I was a Sufi until I read the book "Two Faces of Islam"
by Stephan Schwartz. My project has brought me to this awareness. Sufism is a mysticism not attributed to any one religious belief, but rather more like a science which directs one to truth and a direct relationship with the divine nature within.

Ophiel Ophiuci · #4 01-14-2008, 05:52 PM

Nevertheless, it is a Muslim tradition which has many solid Western equivalents, so unless you're engaging in cultural exoticism for the sake of it, I'd say just go with one of them because this whole thing just makes you look ridiculous.

bort · #5 01-14-2008, 06:04 PM

Doris Lessing got well over it.

Sophia_ · #6 01-14-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci

Nevertheless, it is a Muslim tradition which has many solid Western equivalents, so unless you're engaging in cultural exoticism for the sake of it, I'd say just go with one of them because this whole thing just makes you look ridiculous.

I'm breaking through some of the misperceptions that have created such human calamities as war, hatred, bigotry, distrust, etc. Understanding is a greater path to a common dream that all people desire. We are One people in the heart. Don't you see how control is achieved by the few who distort truth? In the heart we all want the same things: love, empathy, compassion, gratitude, hope, self expression......peace.

Our enemy is within ourselves; once we begin to unveil our truths we will find the understanding we seek.

"We wound ourselves;
We punish ourselves;
We can heal ourselves;
When we learn to CARE for ourselves"
~~carefulcarpenter

Ophiel Ophiuci · #7 01-14-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

I'm breaking through some of the misperceptions that have created such human calamities as war, hatred, bigotry, distrust, etc. Understanding is a greater path to a common dream that all people desire. We are One people in the heart. Don't you see how control is achieved by the few who distort truth? In the heart we all want the same things: love, empathy, compassion, gratitude, hope, self expression......peace.

Never a more homogenous word spoken in jest. But you're avoiding the issue. You sound like a white person who gets upset because he doesn't get to be as offended when he gets called "cracker" as a black guy can when someone calls him "nigger". Part of all just getting along is that we respect each other's differences, rather than bleating on about how we're all the same inside. We're not all the same!

In summary: everyone wanting to love and to be loved has precisely fuck all to do with you having found a new word to describe your pretentious guff and trying to divorce it entirely from context.

You are distorting the truth by claiming affiliation to an order of mystics for whom you have not one iota of respect, let alone understanding, and yet you control nothing. Look at my sig before you start harping on about distortion of truth; you're as guilty as hell.

Rancheria · #8 01-14-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia_
I'm breaking through some of the misperceptions that have created such human calamities as war, hatred, bigotry, distrust, etc. Understanding is a greater path to a common dream that all people desire. We are One people in the heart. Don't you see how control is achieved by the few who distort truth? In the heart we all want the same things: love, empathy, compassion, gratitude, hope, self expression......peace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci

Never a more homogenous word spoken in jest. But you're avoiding the issue. You sound like a white person who gets upset because he doesn't get to be as offended when he gets called "cracker" as a black guy can when someone calls him "nigger". Part of all just getting along is that we respect each other's differences, rather than bleating on about how we're all the same inside. We're not all the same!

In summary: everyone wanting to love and to be loved has precisely fuck all to do with you having found a new word to describe your pretentious guff and trying to divorce it entirely from context.

You are distorting the truth by claiming affiliation to an order of mystics for whom you have not one iota of respect, let alone understanding, and yet you control nothing. Look at my sig before you start harping on about distortion of truth; you're as guilty as hell.

Oph, thanks for giving us your full quote to compare to the Sophy_ edited version. His editing of your quote that he uses as part of his signature quote is an obvious distortion, of course. Just like his signature quote of 'my overheard conversation' that he distorts and 'edits' from my original exchange with the mentally ill shoplifter. Sophy's recounting of what I supposedly said to the shoplifter is not even close to what was actually said, much less the fact that he presents the mentally ill shoplifter as a poor victimized homeless guy. Even after I reported several times what my conversation was about, Sophy_ justified using it as a signature 'quote' to show how one can misperceive something he overhears. Of course that defensive rationale is not included with the distortion in Sophy's signature quote.

The pathetic thing is that even with his distorted editing and omission of much of the quote, any possible control or illustration through Soph_ changing the meaning of our quotes is lost because his creative signature quotes do not make any sense after he's cut all the meaning and context out of our original thoughts and conversation.

I know a Sufi Master would never do anything like his delusional signature quote 'editing' for some nonsensical Sophy_-like purpose. For someone who is preaching for us all to be truthful, try not to misperceive, and not to control by distorting the truth, this would be a good place for him to start to put himself on a truthful path. End the hypocrisy by realising that distorting a thought by chopping all the meaning out of it is dishonest. And if you can't remember a simple overheard conversation and can't remember the actual words used to develop your misperception, then your paraphrasing of your faulty memory will more than likely be pretty useless to everyone. I've noticed that paranoid--delusional people just believe what they want to believe---so thanks for giving us some good examples of this, Sophy--everytime you use your signature quotes. Hopefully Sufism with it's mystical search of meaning through seeking the truth and the vital importance of gaining self-understanding in this quest will awake the desire in Soph_ to jettison his addiction to all his pretentious guff. I'm hoping he won't be elected ' Mr. Humility - 2008 ' in Kosmic Irony the beginning of next year.

An example of "pretentious Guff" : It's a waste to use a manufactured lie as a signature quote by 'quoting' a KR member with 'creative' Sophy editing, everytime one posts. We all know this. Oh boy, he's going to make a bizarre Sufi 'Master' !!!

Synchro Sufi !! A new kind of Mysticism. Please invent a new word for it with similar profundity to your last infamous word: 'Marerophilia'

Sophia_ · #9 01-15-2008, 02:44 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Prophetic continuity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Universal Sufism

Following in the tradition of Sufis such as Ibn al-Arabi, Shihabuddin Suhrawardi, Dara Shikoh, the Indian Emperor Akbar, and Hazrat Inayat Khan, Pir Zia Inayat-Khan upholds the idea of prophetic continuity, i.e. the idea that a single and universal force of divine guidance manifests throughout particular prophetic instantiations in time, space, and culture.[1] While according full respect to the particularities and distinctions of different religions and revelations, this view also holds that all religions and revelations epiphanize the universal, perennial, and ongoing disclosure of the Divine.[2]. Pir Zia affirms, however, that prophetic continuity and unity does not equal uniformity. The myriad manifestations of revelation in its distinctions and differences are an inherent and thus sacred expression of the whole. In his 2007 webcast, Pir Zia explains this using the metaphor of DNA:

No religion serves the function of another, and yet, religions are not essentially different, although they are differentiated in function... [O]rgans are made of tissues, tissues of cells, and cells contain DNA, and every cell contains the DNA of the whole body -- so every organ contains in itself the total truth without anything absent. It is all fully present in each part, and yet that total truth is modulated, is customized by the cell so that each cell can contribute to the working of the whole, a whole that is not inorganic and homogeneous but is organic and differentiated, and so each cell needs to customize its divine dispensation to work cooperatively within the field of the whole, to contribute its part to the divine wisdom... This is a brilliant model for understanding the relationships of the divinely revealed religions, and the real possibility of imagining, conceiving, and making real the total religion that is the summation of all dispensations.[3]

In this view prophetic revelation is a birthright shared by all humanity, and as such offers a source for genuine interreligious reconciliation. While remaining firmly within one’s own cultural and religious location, one can behold with full respect the Divine guidance as revealed in other traditions. Extending beyond interfaith dialogue, planetary prophetology supports the late Wayne Teasdale’s concept of interspirituality, that is, the active, shared practice amongst followers of different religions. In this regard, Pir Zia has hosted and participated in a number of “interspiritual” and Abrahamic gatherings, in addition to conferences of different Sufi masters.[4]

According to Pir Zia, the mystical and esoteric currents of the worlds’ religions in particular support this interpretation of universal Divine guidance, and play a critical role in the emergence of a new planetary consciousness. Mystical traditions, in their acknowledgement of a universal and ongoing force of divine guidance and revelation, provide the transformative foundations for a positive global civilization characterized by interreligious reconciliation.[5]

kesh · #10 01-15-2008, 04:11 AM

i reckon it'll be gurdjieff next week

bort · #11 01-15-2008, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesh

i reckon it'll be gurdjieff next week

The Raelians want their turn!

Ophiel Ophiuci · #12 01-21-2008, 09:17 AM

So this forum's been dead for a good week now. Well done everybody.

atomicxfairie · #13 01-22-2008, 05:20 AM

Sufism is interesting, but I don't understand why Western people feel the need to misappropriate other traditions. I've never noticed it the other way round. I've heard that many Sufis venerate the Christian Saints and Mary, but then Mary is a figure in Islam as well.

People in Eastern religions that are generally what we'd call 'liberal' seem to have respect for Christianity/Judaism without feeling the need to convert to it/claim to be Christian/Jew :|. People seem convert to Eastern religions in an effort to emphasise that there is more than one true faith, but all this having to convert to the most 'enlightened' faith kind of indicates that they don't really think that way.

Obviously I'm aware that there are some people who convert to Eastern religions because they genuinely feel it's right for them, which is fair enough. I don't think this is one of those cases though.

Sophia_ · #14 01-22-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomicxfairie

Sufism is interesting, but I don't understand why Western people feel the need to misappropriate other traditions. I've never noticed it the other way round. I've heard that many Sufis venerate the Christian Saints and Mary, but then Mary is a figure in Islam as well.

People in Eastern religions that are generally what we'd call 'liberal' seem to have respect for Christianity/Judaism without feeling the need to convert to it/claim to be Christian/Jew :|. People seem convert to Eastern religions in an effort to emphasise that there is more than one true faith, but all this having to convert to the most 'enlightened' faith kind of indicates that they don't really think that way.

Obviously I'm aware that there are some people who convert to Eastern religions because they genuinely feel it's right for them, which is fair enough. I don't think this is one of those cases though.

Sufism is a mysticism not attributed to any one religious belief, but rather more like a science which directs one to truth and a direct relationship with the divine nature within.

Sophia_ · #15 01-22-2008, 02:41 PM

..

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomicxfairie

Sufism is interesting, but I don't understand why Western people feel the need to misappropriate other traditions. I've never noticed it the other way round. I've heard that many Sufis venerate the Christian Saints and Mary, but then Mary is a figure in Islam as well.

People in Eastern religions that are generally what we'd call 'liberal' seem to have respect for Christianity/Judaism without feeling the need to convert to it/claim to be Christian/Jew :|. People seem convert to Eastern religions in an effort to emphasise that there is more than one true faith, but all this having to convert to the most 'enlightened' faith kind of indicates that they don't really think that way.

Obviously I'm aware that there are some people who convert to Eastern religions because they genuinely feel it's right for them, which is fair enough. I don't think this is one of those cases though.

Sufism is a mysticism not attributed to any one religious belief, but rather more like a science which directs one to truth and a direct relationship with the divine nature within.

atomicxfairie · #16 01-23-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

Sufism is a mysticism not attributed to any one religious belief, but rather more like a science which directs one to truth and a direct relationship with the divine nature within.

But Sufism isn't a science. It isn't supposed to be! I know there are some non-Muslim Sufi groups, but this sort of thing will just end up diluting every faith there is. It is attributed to Islam, although they will allow non-Muslims to worship with them AFAIK. Nevertheless, I think one needs to at least have a grasp of the basics of Islam to understand where Sufism comes from. To be honest I think it's a bit insulting to call yourself a Sufi without learning about it.

What actually attracts you to Sufism? Like, what are you aiming for, to get out of all this? Have you looked into Quakerism? It isn't as exotic as Sufism but it is aiming for the direct relationship, and is quite mystical, if that's the right word.

Um, am I wasting my time trying to discuss this? Sorry but you seem to make a lot of vague posts in this forum. Where there could be interesting discussions :|

Ophiel Ophiuci · #17 01-23-2008, 09:11 AM

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