no, i'm not saying that we can't take joy in simple things unless everything with the world is perfect.

"taking joy in simple things" is all that most people do!

it's all they do.

if more people cared, then things might change and improve.

i think it's the people who look for and appreciate the beauty in life who also look past the ugly and the bad and the suffering.

i think it's the people who see these bad things, who are angered by them, who hate how things are now - they're the ones who usually succeed.

no, the world will never been a perfect, happy place. i never said i believed it will be.

on this issue i see pessimism as having a realistic view.

i think anyone who sees the world as anything but a rotten miserable place is extremely deluded.

just because you're pessimistic doesn't necessarily mean that you lack the drive to change that which you hate.

i think the world being a bad place right now, is even more motivation to succeed, it's something to overcome. without seeing the world's disparity, the problems become less urgent. i think, if anything, this realistic/pessimistic view is more hopeful than the alternative. if i had never seen how wondrous and beautiful this world is, it wouldn't hurt me so much to see it suffer.. i'd be more likely to turn a blind eye.

it's related to that whole weird idea of wishing for eternal happiness. happiness doesnt exist without something horrible to compare it to?

whatever, i think everyone makes good points here.

the pessimistic view isn't the realistic view. there's a vast difference between being very realistic and being hypercritical and paranoid about everything.

but she said this:
which indicates to me that progress is made when people feel like things are fucked.

usually when people feel things are TOO fucked up,beyond repair, they dont try to repair it. and i agree that THAT is very unrealistic or at least weak.

the point is, she wasnt saying "this place is fucked, we're all gonna die, we're all gonna starve like that cute african baby"

more like.. "this place is fucked. some of us are okay, but plenty of us are fucked. we all need lose our lust for convenience, to do more to help people. being all smiles at a time like this feels cheap because right now, someone somewhere is needlessly suffering."

i cant express myself well like this, so excuse me for being low brow. i just think the post in question was much less extreme than you're making it out to be, Mr. Chemist. i would have made a very similar post if i could sort out the words.

i'm not paranoid at all, so i have no idea where you're coming from with that.

on being hypercritical, yeah, sure, i am. and what's wrong with that?

it's important to see things as they are, to criticize what you see as "bad", to do what you are able to do to change that.

it's what makes shit happen.

nothing's ever gonna change if you just sit on your ass and refuse to see or accept the world for what it really is.

i really don't understand how anyone could look at the world and all the suffering and shitty things that we do and not be upset and angry.

those who are passionate make shit happen. again -

you were upset when i posted pictures of starving children in africa in another thread, so it doesn't surprise me that you've now made a post of this nature in this one.

now tell me, what's your "realistic view", then?

(if you can manage to see past my ever pertinent posting style, that is)