Private property: no admitance without dues paid

Sophia_ · #1 05-28-2007, 02:34 AM

This is a post I made on another website two years ago. The problem there was in regards to ownership of public access internet sites. Have things changed? I believe they have. The people spoke up for their rights to free expresion. A year earlier carefulcarpenter had been permanently banned by the owner of the site--a famous musical artist--no defense was permitted regarding the action taken to censor the poet. New policy was enforced retroactively and no second chances were given. The charge: "stirring up shit". I refer to it as questioning authority.

This post was made under a new login name and poetry became acceptable by all. A churchmouse can topple an orthodoxy.

http://janisian.com/cgi-bin/teemz/te...=Message_Board

Quote:

a yellow VW microbus is traveling along the pacific coast on a bright sunny day in springtime. the coastal fog is burning off, and a slight chill lingers in the morning air. atop the van are two surfboards suited in brightly colored blue and tangerine neoprene. the two surfing buddies are searching for the perfect cove to spend the day; and possibly discover the ideal home base community to relocate their internet business. it’s memorial weekend, and time to do some serious chilling.

as they speed past rows and rows of broccoli they glimpse the edges of a sandstone cliff and the hint of a sandy beach-- “this looks like a possibility” one of them remarks. “cool dude”, responds the other. after finding a place to park and a short hike to the beach these two metro sexual ‘surfer dudes’ discover heaven: an imaginary place in the minds of all dreamers and artists. this could be the site of ‘the perfect waves’, the mythical beach of ‘mavericks’ fame. quickly they unzip their boards and slip into the water’s edge.

along the beach lay sandy mounds--or dunes. amongst these dunes rest another type of dreamer--the nudist-hippy-earth children. they sometimes spend the entire weekend relaxing and relating, and generally engaged in earth worship: the sun, the moon, the fog, the sea. these people are members of a cult-like group that has been here off and on for four decades awaiting the return of the great mythical giant turtle of nirvana. a generation of offspring have been conceived on this very beach: human as well as amphibian.

memorial weekend brings many assorted beach dwellers to this area--some to surf; some to sun; some to play with their children; and many older folks who come to rekindle the memories of years gone by. there is no formal beach security, but there is a white jeep that does drive through occasionally looking for contraband and litter, but seldom interferes with the mixed community of users. the police will respond to normal calls or complaints if necessary, yet except for the occasional beer bash that leads to gang fighting, it has been a fairly uncontrolled place for people to find those ethereal aspects to life that just cannot be found anywhere else.
a man wearing a white sun hat and sandals walks down the beach with a tote-bag filled with children's beach toys. he asks the attendant parked in his white jeep if he could section off an area near the beach, not too far from the surf, where he and a group of kids can have a sandcastle building derby. he wants to put up a few posts and tie plastic caution tape as a border, so that the surfers and the nudists will not disturb the sandcastles, and the man can attempt to deter the vandals from senseless destruction of the children’s weekend-long event. the man in the jeep was apparently hired under a special program to employ the deaf, because no matter how the man in the white sun hat tries he cannot get the man on duty to respond to his request. a few bystanders overhear the conversation and yell at the man for his attempt to establish a framework for protecting the activities by his group. yells of “asshole, you don’t own this beach”...and “this is a free, unrestricted beach” is heard in the background. frustrated, he decides to go ahead and run his “sandcastle art by the sea exhibition” without the approval and protection of the beach authorities.

the first day of the memorial weekend the children decide to build small castles and romp in the waves to see what kind of place this is. for them, the experience over on the coast is a wonderland of curiosity and self expression. they aren’t much for politics and they surely have no basis for relating to the cult community, so they spend most of the day doing what kids do--have fun in the sun.

the second day is different. when they show up with their pails, shovels , and other building tools they find that all their previous days work has been smashed and dogs are freely running through the mounds of sand after frisbees. this is what seems to happen at a beach--even though it appears to be a public beach for everyone. some people don’t seem to understand that sandcastle art is a temporary art form, but it is intended to be there for the appreciation of those who love the beach and all the things that the beach represents. they know that the wind, and rain will eventually knock it down--but why would vandals want to wreck their sand art on memorial weekend? wasn’t time off intended for people to relax and let the bitterness of urban life vanish from their thoughts? to explore a part of them that is hidden to normal awareness?

the second day, the sand art director tries to include some of the beach dwellers in the process. he knows that the hippies understand the beauty of the art and how helpful it would be if they would encourage the kids to build beautiful sandcastles. the surfers know that this beach is a wonderland of greatness and beauty--all of which is better shared when all members are in harmony with nature. the random beach visitors who are simply there for a short amount of time, also know how important it is for children to have a safe place to play. the director hopes that all members of the community respect the need for a place to let loose. he begins to question whether any adult participating in the 4 day weekend is aware of the potential magic that is awaiting as these special children construct their fantasy?

....a sign posted at the entrance to the only beach access road, next to the farmer’s vegetable stand reads ---”this road is private property -- no lifeguards are on duty-- trespassers found in violation of the rules may be prosecuted by the owner--subject to the owner’s discretion.”
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Ophiel Ophiuci · #2 05-28-2007, 03:11 AM

You have a blog. Use it.

Sophia_ · #3 05-28-2007, 03:25 AM

Sorry, no blog.

"One makes the difference"
~~Julia "Butterfly" Hill

Ophiel Ophiuci · #4 05-28-2007, 03:35 AM

Well dude, get one. Most forums I've used would consider your posts spam. You're promoting your product (your "poetry") and very rarely respond to anyone else's posts with anything more than further advertising. You are damn lucky that they let you continue here.

I jumped to a conclusion because you're always quoting your own work. I assumed it must be up in some form somewhere, because you kicked up such a fuss when I altered your intellectual property. But if it doesn't exist elsewhere, then you're not actually citing anything (even yourself) when you post CC quotes; you're just making them up. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that your quotes were being misrepresented when they only exist in a transient form anyway.

I know you won't take any notice, but if you want to post your poetry on-line, get a blog and do it there. You can put a hyperlink to it in your signature. Make it all pretty and nice, and put your poems there. It might enable you to write, and it would be interesting to see them out of context from this forum, where they could (misleadingly) be mistaken for little more than an attempt to imply authority during an argument (are you familiar with Freud's ideas about self-preservation and the replica?), which I know would be a shame. Not that all art is instantly understood, but only the most self-indulgent artist chooses to revel and so stagnate in his inability to communicate his ideas.

Sophia_ · #5 05-28-2007, 03:42 AM

Back to your heartless intellectualism again. Well, for a minute there.......

Speaking of self-indulgence, blogs, and narcissism all wrapped into one show. The narcissism is the repressed undercurrent, of course, but sooo acceptable to the hurd mentality.

Ophiel Ophiuci · #6 05-28-2007, 04:00 AM

See, I'm just trying to help you with your credibility. You could post your poetry in the writer's subforum. You don't have to surreptitiously add it as footnotes to posts during debate. It's like you're binding yourself creatively. Why not let it flow free, where it can be appreciated? Here, it just looks reactionary, and I'd hope that you'd think that a misrepresentation of your work. Maybe it isn't.

And yet you're calling this "herd mentality". It's almost received wisdom these days to refer to wider society in this way. In reality, society is a significant development on the herd. Have you considered the possibility that sometimes a lot of people think the same way because they' right? You seem very inclined to believe that those who disagree just haven't opened their eyes yet, that their perceptive faculties are deficit, and that the only way to know for sure that they are "awake" is when they concur with you. Cyclic logic, self-preservation, death anxiety. You need to accept that people think differently. Oh, you present a façade of accepting it, talking about diversity and shit, but I mean actually accepting it. As in developing a sense of humour about your own beliefs, and being willing to discuss belief and ideas with others. I doubt you'll engage with me on this, because you like to accuse me of twisting your words (which is funny, given how convoluted and deliberately obstuse most of them are). Words mean a lot to you, I think. But language is something that twists and turns all by itself. It doesn't need me to do it. The skill of a poet is in articulating that which seems indescribable, and it's a skill that's worth learning, CC.

But meh, the above is probably intellectualism by your token. I don't anticipate a response that addresses anything that I've said directly, since you've said in the past you won't engage me directly, but hey, maybe this'll be your chance to surprise me.

Sophia_ · #7 05-28-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron PM

no one here cares. BYE

I guess aaron speaks for everyone. Lets junk freedom, hey aaron?

Sophia_ · #8 05-28-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci

See, I'm just trying to help you with your credibility.

And yet you're calling this "herd mentality".

I don't anticipate a response that addresses anything that I've said directly, since you've said in the past you won't engage me directly, but hey, maybe this'll be your chance to surprise me.

I doubt you care about my credibility. You just don't care for the comparison.

"Everyone get in your assigned pens now, and you can moo and baaa all night long to your own hearts desires."

I prefer to respond when and where I choose. I believe this is the right of all members. I see you consistently selecting what you choose to look at and respond to, so... where is it that you can't see your own behavior when it's the same prefered freedom you follow?

I don't respond to your name-calling or your convoluted thinking. You are a master sophist, and I know your tactics well. What's the use, really? I give you enough to react to, so why would you want me to engage in fruitless argument?

"The intellect, the master's tool for gaining the upper hand, is useless in love-making and peace-making. The soul reveals truth through unknowing."
~~carefulcarpenter

Ophiel Ophiuci · #9 05-28-2007, 11:19 AM

aaron would be teh awes0mest dict8z0rr!

Ophiel Ophiuci · #10 05-28-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

I doubt you care about my credibility. You just don't care for the comparison.

"Everyone get in your assigned pens now, and you can moo and baaa all night long to your own hearts desires."

I prefer to respond when and where I choose. I believe this is the right of all members. I see you consistently selecting what you choose to look at and respond to, so... where is it that you can't see your own behavior when it's the same prefered freedom you follow?

I used to make the effort to try to respond to all the salient points you make. It got wearing, because you tended to just avoid the issue. Can you fucking blame me? Show me one instance where I haven't answered a question YOU'VE put to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

I don't respond to your name-calling or your convoluted thinking. You are a master sophist, and I know your tactics well. What's the use, really? I give you enough to react to, so why would you want me to engage in fruitless argument?

Why post on a forum if you don't want to discuss? This is what I was saying; get a blog, and they you can just spooge your thoughts onto the internet, and you won't have to put up with people questioning you or asking you awkward questions about it.

No argument is fruitless from the psyche's perspective. We are richer for the experience of discussing a subject, being challenged and tested on our staid and entrenched views.

I find it funny that you refer to my "tactics". I don't think I've ever been underhand. I could, for example, have led you to believe that I was Odin/Rancheria for a while, just to make it all the more hilarious when you found out it couldn't be. But I didn't. None of my "tactics" are particularly unique or unusual within a debate. You answer the person's point with a question concerning that point. It may lead on a tangent, it may not. These things are inevitable.

Or would you rather just be praised? Praise without the possibility of disapproval is pretty meaningless, no?

Sophia_ · #11 05-28-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci

I used to make the effort to try to respond to all the salient points you make. It got wearing, because you tended to just avoid the issue. Can you fucking blame me? Show me one instance where I haven't answered a question YOU'VE put to me.

Why post on a forum if you don't want to discuss? This is what I was saying; get a blog, and they you can just spooge your thoughts onto the internet, and you won't have to put up with people questioning you or asking you awkward questions about it.

No argument is fruitless from the psyche's perspective. We are richer for the experience of discussing a subject, being challenged and tested on our staid and entrenched views.

I find it funny that you refer to my "tactics". I don't think I've ever been underhand. I could, for example, have led you to believe that I was Odin/Rancheria for a while, just to make it all the more hilarious when you found out it couldn't be. But I didn't. None of my "tactics" are particularly unique or unusual within a debate. You answer the person's point with a question concerning that point. It may lead on a tangent, it may not. These things are inevitable.

Or would you rather just be praised? Praise without the possibility of disapproval is pretty meaningless, no?

Keep being yourself.

That's all I suggest. Keep responding and we'll get along fine. Don't take things personally. Keep thinking for yourself.

Ophiel Ophiuci · #12 05-28-2007, 11:58 AM

I was going to do that anyway.

I advise you to be less yourself and more like me. I'm awesome. It'd do you good.

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