Discuss.

I personally don't see how any religion can claim to be benevolent while it's taking people's money in exchange for helping them to attain enlightenment or salvation. Even the evil capitalist money-grubbing state funds free public libraries, and they're not even after our souls.

What do you guys think? Can a religion ever justify this?

(Incidentally, I'm not talking about collection plates and so forth, because while there's a degree of social pressure to donate to them, no-one actually says that you can't be a Christian if you don't.)

I can't argue with you. Any religion that says you can buy salvation, is not a religion, it's a scam and a cult.

I think all organised religion is retarded, they're all doomed from the git-go. An individual should not be given complete power and authority.

if this is another anti-scientologist thread, i suggest you find a way to get rid of yer thetans.

can you recommend a way to get rid of them that doesn't cost many many dollars?

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they arrived dramatically at the space gun in an art deco-style autogyro

I go so far as to say that charging for a copy of a Bible or Koran is kinda sick.
One of the biggest reasons I left my church was that they kept whorin' the collection plate. I heard more about $$ than Jesus - it bugged me badly!

I'll keep my thetans, thanks. They're mine! If they were serious they'd PAY people to come and get rid of them.

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getting tired of the collective orgasm at the public declaration of the word "change"

Dr. Nathanson

word

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then she dances skirt swaying in the half-light she dances white blossom in the black sky
'I need new clothes', she thinks, 'new skin, a mind I can bear to live in'.

<<I go so far as to say that charging for a copy of a Bible or Koran is kinda sick. >>

it bothers me to no end whenever i see religious merchandise being sold for profit. there was this shop in lawrence (maybe it's still there, i don't know) that sold all this jesus merch and it was just rediculous. some of it was expensive! how can anyone take a religion seriously when it's being capitalized on. i'm kind of dismayed by my church 'cause they're charging an arm and a leg for this dinner celebration for the new building. and it's so fancy! it's contrary to what i believe in. i can't wait to go back to my old church.

my dad once told me that when i go looking for a church, to see how much (if anything) the priest/preacher gets paid to do
what he does. anyone who makes a lofty living doing that is questionable.

fortunately though free bibles are easy to come across, at least in this neck 'o the woods. i got a fancy bible for christmas once and although it was a nice thought, i felt weird about having a seventy-five dollar bible.

exactly
i used to shop for veggie tales stuff for my kids at a certain well known christian gift shop but when i saw that they were advertising NOW OPEN ON SUNDAYS! I was like WTF never will i shop here again.
I listen to Christian music mostly, but when I see a Christian band that poses in designer clothes with a pout on their faces on the cover of a magazine )which is just a bundled ad for various products, it amkes me question even the music i listen to.
I won a $50 bible once. I love it - its my study bible it has all kinds of historical notes and stuff but i would have never bought such a thing!
i have family that believers you have to run EVERYTHING by a Strongs- that in order to be of faith you have to go and buy hundreds of dollars worth of other books to explain the bible so apperently if all you have is your free gideon bible, you're out of luck z

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getting tired of the collective orgasm at the public declaration of the word "change"

Dr. Nathanson

i can see that. the religion i practice is diferent in that it is very personal, not to organised, and means many different things to many different people.

when i saw this immediantly thought that maybe some religion (this is speculation, i really dont know much on this subject) might have worshippers pay in order t symbolise the sacrifice of materalism for the sake of te spirit. i duno though, thats the only sense i can make out of this idea that seems so senseless.

If you take a Gideon's Bible from a hotel room, does it count as stealing? I've never been sure whether you're allowed to take them or not. And can God really complain if you're stealing in order to celebrate His name?

Am I really this transparent?

Well yeah, I'll admit, they're a big part of the reason I posted this. But I'm currently just as bothered by the Jesus Army. They're a group based around my way who until recently I thought were just well-meaning hippies trying to spread the Gospel and whatnot. Now I find out that anyone who joins has to give up all their worldly possessions, and I seriously feel dirty for ever having defended them.

My beef with Scientology is the same: stuff like the Xenu myth might seem fucking retarded to me, but hey, anyone can believe what they want. What sickens me is that people are expected to give up huge sums of money for the salvation they supposedly get from not being able to take headache tablets. Such scams (and they really really are scams) target, intentionally or otherwise, some of the most vulnerable members of society, and it sickens me that their exponents try and defend what they do in the name of freedom of expression.

yes, I'm not sure that this is what t. s. eliot meant when he wrote of a condition of complete simplicity 'costing not less than everything'.

To me that's the worst part; what you give of yourself in pursuit of enlightenment should not be measured in dollars and cents, but in blood sweat and tears.

I'm kinda glad no-one's so far defending it, although I'd be interested to see how one would even begin.

or word, thought and deed.

one is reminded of martin luther's famous struggle against the morally and philosophically bad soteriology of the papal indulgences of the early 1500s which continues in the catholic church to this day.

<<I think all organised religion is retarded, they're all doomed from the git-go. An individual should not be given complete power and authority.>>

catholicism is the only religion i can think of off top of my head that does this.

<<that in order to be of faith you have to go and buy hundreds of dollars worth of other books to explain the bible so apperently if all you have is your free gideon bible, you're out of luck z>>

i always wondered why a person needs to buy tons and tons of books in order to 'understand' the bible. i like to read the works of the theologians for perspective and for an insight to aspects of the tradition, but it being necessary? those books can total a pretty penny, not to mention, they are one fallible person's interpretation of it (or several, but fallible still). and taking stuff entirely from books kind of takes the work out of believing and finding the truth in a way, you know?

and you start acting on other people's faith and never build your own. You can follow a guru that believes in God or you can follow God. I dont care if Joel Osteen thinks he's got it all together - God doesn't need me to buy Joel's book to get to know God. That's liek saying God can't properly articulate himself, lol.


Oh Ophiel -stealing of the Gideon Bibles (even though i know you're bing cheeky a bit)... Are you thinking in your heart "I'm stealling a Bible huh huh huh cool" or are you thinking wow I'd love to read the Bible, but cant afford one. God looks at the intention of things before the follow-through.

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getting tired of the collective orgasm at the public declaration of the word "change"

Dr. Nathanson

i stole one once, the giddeon frm a hotel room. and m apartment had one when i moved in. the bible is also the worlds most shop lifted book ironically