Welcome to the kittyradio.com forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. Remove these ads when you register. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us. | 
12-15-2007, 08:22 PM
|  | u bet i'll b ur boyfriend | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 930
| | | Study: Bisexual Men Not Aroused by Both Sexes
Quote:
Aug. 30, 2005 - Bisexual men aren't fully bisexual, a controversial study suggests.
In the study, bisexual men reported being sexually aroused by erotic videos of both men and women. But a device attached to their genitals told another story.
Gerulf Rieger, a PhD candidate at Northwestern University, conducted the study with psychology professor J. Michael Bailey, PhD.
"We used measures of sexual arousal to explain true sexual feeling," Rieger tells WebMD. "In men, there is no good evidence that something like a true bisexual attraction is out there."
That conclusion doesn't fit with the experience of San Francisco psychologist Geri Weitzman, PhD, who runs a web site listing bisexual-friendly professional services.
"I have seen in my practice very, very, very many men who are bisexual," Weitzman tells WebMD. "Really, there are so many bisexual men out there. There are so many men who say -- and demonstrate -- that they love men and love women and are happy with it."
Rieger and Bailey are looking in the wrong place for men's sexual identities, says Sheeri Kritzer, a Bisexual Resource Center board member. Identity, she says, comes from above the ears, not below the belt.
"The whole point of sexual identity is it is a validation of who you are," Kritzer tells WebMD. "This study perpetuates the idea that men are studs, that they go with whatever turns them on. It goes on the old stereotype that men think with their [penises]."
Sexologist Paula Rodriguez Rust, PhD, is the editor of the 1999 book Bisexuality in the United States. She says a person's sexual orientation is not determined merely by genital arousal.
"Sexual response is not everything we think of when we think of sexual orientation," Rodriguez Rust tells WebMD. "Bisexuality clearly exists."
Women From Venus and Mars, Men From Venus or Mars
Bailey's sexuality research tends to draw fire. His 2003 book on male-to-female transsexuals, The Man Who Would Be Queen, is still under attack from some in the transgendered community.
Last year, Bailey, Rieger, and others published a study in which they measured female sexual arousal. They concluded that women -- whether they identify themselves as homosexual or heterosexual -- have bisexual arousal patterns. That's because the genitals of women participating in the study became aroused when they watched porn, regardless of whether it featured men or women.
Men, they say, are different. The current study, reported in the current issue of Psychological Science, enrolled 30 heterosexual men, 33 bisexual men, and 38 homosexual men. Nine of the heterosexual men, 11 of the bisexual men, and 13 of the homosexual men did not become genitally aroused by the videos and were dropped from the final analysis.
The men viewed an 11-minute nonsexual film, followed by several two-minute sexual films and another neutral film. The sex films depicted either men having sex with men or women having sex with women.
The men indicated how aroused they felt by moving a lever up or back. Their genital arousal was measured by an elastic device attached to their penises.
Homosexual men said they were aroused by the male/male porn but not the female/female porn. So did their genital measurements. Heterosexual men said they were aroused by the female/female porn - and their genital measurements agreed.
Bisexual men said they were turned on by both sets of videos -- but their genitals responded to one or the other, not to both.
"The majority of bisexual men got aroused to men and only to men," Rieger says. "All those who didn't look like gay men looked like heterosexual men: They got aroused to women. This study fits the picture that ... men are very target specific. They have an object of their sexual desire and go for that. ... The pattern is that they have this object specificity -- it does not change."
Critics Question Results
Weitzman questions both the study methods and Rieger's interpretation of the data.
"The study methods are poor," she says. "It is such a small sample size. To make these conclusions on so few people, that is not good science. Unfortunately, this has gotten much more media play than it deserves. If you torture the data, they will confess to anything. It does not mean there are no bisexual men."
Kritzer, too, questions the study design. She points to the large number of men who were not genitally aroused during the study.
"About a third of the people had no response to any of the porn, whether they identified as gay, straight, or bisexual," she says. "The researchers said this means they had no response, so throw this data out. Yet they said that when bisexual men did not respond to all of the videos, it meant they were gay or straight."
None of the study's flaws is fatal, says Rodriguez Rust. The problem is with Kritzer and Bailey's interpretation.
"The problem with the article is that the findings have been misinterpreted," Rodriguez Rust says. "If you look at the study data, they actually do not show an absence of bisexual sexual response in men. A number of study subjects clearly did respond to both males and females. The study's conclusion -- that it remains to be demonstrated that men have a bisexual response -- is curious, because it is not supported by the findings."
Who We Are, What We Do, What Turns Us On
"We make a distinction between identity, behavior, and attraction," Rieger says. "Identity is how you perceive yourself. Behavior is what you do. And attraction is what I consider your true sexual feelings for your own sex or for a member of the opposite sex."
Rieger says that for most homosexual and heterosexual men, these three aspects of sexuality are the same. That's not the case for men who say they are bisexual - even if they have sex with both men and women.
"Bailey and I have this approach that sexual attraction is what really defines your sexual orientation: what feelings, actual feelings, do you have?" Rieger says. "In men, there is no good evidence that something like a true bisexual attraction is out there."
That's not true for women, he says.
"Women seem to have a bisexual physiological arousal pattern. Whether homosexual or straight, they show bisexual arousal. It does not seem to be related to what they really are interested in. This is very different from what we find in guys."
Weitzman says Bailey and Rieger oversimplify the many elements that determine a person's sexual orientation. She points to the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid, a tool that some psychologists use to determine a person's sexual orientation. Many factors go into this determination: attraction, behavior, fantasies, emotional preference, social preference, lifestyle, and self-identification.
Kritzer says bisexuals often encounter hostility both from the gay/lesbian community and from heterosexuals.
"The Bailey article speaks to a growing trend where bisexuality is seen as a negative thing," she says. "They think we are like unicorns, that we're fabled but don't really exist. This is creating an environment where it isn't even safe to come out in the gay community. But I say when a person who is gay or straight, and finds another person and has a loving relationship, we should be glad, whatever sex that other person may be."
Since it's clear that both men and women have sex with both men and women, Rodriguez Rust wonders why so many people find it hard to believe in bisexuality.
"Bisexuality is very interesting because it challenges the way people think," she says. "It makes people comfortable to think that this study shows bisexuality doesn't exist. But this is completely a misinterpretation."
| Log In Problems  |
12-15-2007, 11:21 PM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 67
| | | Pretty interesting article, but I do believe bi-sexuality exists. |
12-16-2007, 08:16 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,311
| | | i domnt think physicla arousal always means "i wanna hit it" |
12-16-2007, 12:38 PM
| | u bet i'll b ur boyfriend | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 930
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH555  Pretty interesting article, but I do believe bi-sexuality exists. | Well it seems to say bisexuality exists in women only. |
12-16-2007, 01:06 PM
|  | be still, cody | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: port-au-patois
Posts: 9,539
| | i didn't know bisexuality meant what porn you liked, i thought it meant who you wanted to sleep with 
__________________
they made soup out of my research turtles. |
12-16-2007, 02:06 PM
|  | heavens to murgatroyd | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: hospice for the terminally ill
Posts: 1,718
| | | genitils! genitils! genitils! all we hear about are genitils! |
12-16-2007, 02:44 PM
|  | At Best, I am only Me. | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hillcrest, DC
Posts: 273
| | | I agree with everything every one posting in this thread has said.
I honestly know a homosexual male that is aroused by lesbian porn. Maybe the thought of every woman being a lesbian allows him to imagine the many guys that will be left for him to conquer, you know? People really need tot take into account a person's psychopathology
Maybe guys can only show arousal for one particular sex in a visual context... or not, I know at one point I could get aroused by visual stimulation (alone) from both sexes, maybe when I was a pre teen... but not anymore.
I don't think porn is porn if there isn't a guy in it. fin |
12-16-2007, 04:50 PM
|  | hi hater. | | Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,659
| | everyone that everyone said so far (including fagarella & jfl) are pretty much spot on.
anyways, for guys to bisexual has always a big deal. but if you look at the majority of the guys who claim to be bisexual, they're either closetted gays who're too afraid to say gay, or just fags who want to be more cutting edge. & that's kind of unfair. for instance, this guy, at one time, claimed to be bisexual. now, i'm not one to cast stones & judge, but i knew from the moment he claimed that that it was going to "end where it ended"; a full-blown fag. idk. i guess people like that kind of ruin everything for everyone & just need to be loaded up onto a ship one-by-one.
this study really didn't prove anything. at all. lets just say if you have to go by porn to judge someones sexual orientation, then you might be scraping at the bottom of the barrel. coz i know if it was me stuck in a room with shitty porn playing, i'd get up & leave the minute i saw a guy come on the screen.
so. w/e.
__________________
hollywood would be jealous.
|
12-16-2007, 08:36 PM
| | At Best, I am only Me. | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hillcrest, DC
Posts: 273
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by l'avatar
anyways, for guys to bisexual has always a big deal. but if you look at the majority of the guys who claim to be bisexual, they're either closetted gays who're too afraid to say gay, or just fags who want to be more cutting edge.
| that is very true... but also many genuinely bisexual men consider themselves straight, just because their desire for women is intense and otherwise unfettered by their desire for men... I think in many cases when it starts to pose an interference and the guy doesn't opt to deny it that 'bisexual' comes out. |
12-16-2007, 09:28 PM
| | don't call me Liz | | Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 130
| | | I know people who identify themselves as bisexual and they are either mostly with me or mostly with women. Like always.
What is true bisexuality?? does it mean that you have equal number of relationships with both men and women?? it's all very confusing.
It's like Angelina Jolie, she used to be a lezbo first, and then she was bisexual with Jenny Shimizu or whatever, but all of a sudden she started consistently dating men and now she's in a committed relationship with a man, I mean what does that mean?? Is she full out straight now or is she simply in love with Brad Pitt right now but could be in love with a woman in the future?? what is it?? |
12-17-2007, 07:07 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 261
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by kesh i didn't know bisexuality meant what porn you liked, i thought it meant who you wanted to sleep with | Exactly! A lot of people like certain porn and erotic films and I doesn't mean thosew films are their whole sexual identity. |
12-17-2007, 09:19 AM
| | don't call me Liz | | Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 130
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennia Exactly! A lot of people like certain porn and erotic films and I doesn't mean thosew films are their whole sexual identity. | are you serious?? what man doesn't get aroused by imagery?? If you don't get aroused it's most likely because you don't like it. |
12-20-2007, 07:15 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Homosexual men said they were aroused by the male/male porn but not the female/female porn.
| I find this interesting because I know a lot of homosexual men who don't find male/male porn arousing at all, myself included. I know quite a few who are put off by porn generally. It doesn't seem like a particularly good indicator of what someone likes and dislikes. Quote: |
Originally Posted by AshWendesday I know people who identify themselves as bisexual and they are either mostly with me or mostly with women. | Comedy typo 
re: Angelina, being in a marriage or a committed relationship with someone doesn't (or at least shouldn't) affect one's sexuality. That's where the "I'm bisexual, thus I can't help cheating on you" angle comes from. If the only way to be bisexual is to marry one person from each gender simultaneously or never have any kind of committed relationship. I do wonder with some bisexuals whether their attraction to one gender is more of a fetish than an orientation, that they like going with their own sex as a kinky thing and thus are unlikely to end up seeing them in the long term. I don't really have much to back that up though. I think it's a confusing issue because, for example, some men will do sexual things with other men, but it seems to be more for convenience than out of attraction to them (tends to be pretty one-way, done surreptitiously/anonymously and with little/no desire for any conversation/whatever before or afterwards), whereas I suspect others will have much stronger inclinations towards men but won't act on them, either because of social pressure or because they simply never meet the right guy. Some people call Kenneth Williams "asexual" because he never acted on his homosexual desires, but by that definition we're all asexual until we lose our virginity, and that seems like bad usage.
(ramble ramble) |
12-20-2007, 11:43 AM
|  | afflicted | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: chicago
Posts: 302
| | | "Bisexuality is very interesting because it challenges the way people think," she says. "It makes people comfortable to think that this study shows bisexuality doesn't exist."
I think that is the key part of the article.
As for Bailey, he's clearly out for sexual minorities, first targeting trannies and now he's going for bixsexuals. depending on whether you say lgbt or glbt the fags or dykes are next.
But yeah, I agree with everyone saying these guys didn't really measure sexual orientation. Being psychologists (ugh.) they're coming at it assuming that there is an underlying biological mechanism of sexual orientation (arousal) that is, as they said, indicative of a person's "true" sexual orientation. No matter that orientation is considered by many scholars to be comprised of identity, behaviors, attraction, fantasy etc. Furthermore, if a guy likes to have sex with guys and says he is bisexual, who's to say he isn't bisexual?
I mean, some of those guys could have been into some kinky shit and saw vanilla porn. Or maybe some of em were into black or ethnic guys and the porn actors were white. Maybe they were nervous, um, having something wrapped around their penises. There are a number of things that complicate the findings and it's just another silly study by psychologists hoping to make the big breakthrough. |
12-20-2007, 09:23 PM
|  | repose most louche | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: feasting with panthers
Posts: 1,888
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by JFL that is very true... but also many genuinely bisexual men consider themselves straight, just because their desire for women is intense and otherwise unfettered by their desire for men... I think in many cases when it starts to pose an interference and the guy doesn't opt to deny it that 'bisexual' comes out. | Is this where the term "down low" comes into perlance? To plagiariase Lisa Stansfield, I've been around the world and I'm astounded at how many cultures where man on man action isn't deemed to be "gay" or "homosexual" provided the party in question is "active".
__________________ *Huggy Ragnarsson Is My Co-Pilot* "coming up on kittyradio, an erotic thriller featuring Shannon Tweed..." |
12-20-2007, 09:32 PM
| | repose most louche | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: feasting with panthers
Posts: 1,888
| | | And if I can be a bit tangential here, I'm agog at "str8" chatrooms where guys casually chat about how hot they find pre op transexuals but dare to intimate they might have "bi" leanings and they completely weird out on you. They're quite happy to j/o to a chick with a dick yet when you tender the option of a dick as nature prescribed it and they label you as a "fucking faggot". Maybe I'm missing a dynamic - anyone care to share?
__________________ *Huggy Ragnarsson Is My Co-Pilot* "coming up on kittyradio, an erotic thriller featuring Shannon Tweed..." |
12-21-2007, 07:51 AM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | | It's not gay if you don't push back.
I think there's a gender double-standard between male and female bisexuals, apart from anything else. We as dudes have been conditioned to be cagey about it in ways that women aren't. I'm not saying women everywhere ever will be accepted, but I think we can broadly agree that a woman can say she's bisexual and pretty much the only response will be somewhere between "...hot" and "...oh". There does seem to be a lot more women around who consider themselves bisexual than there are men, very often on a much less solid basis (compare "I jacked off a bunch of dudes once and regularly received anonymous blowjobs from men off the Internet, but that doesn't mean I'm not straight" to "I quite like women! Breasts are pretty okay I guess! One time I kissed a girl! On the mouth!!"), and I can't think of a better reason for why that should be. |
12-21-2007, 08:38 AM
|  | I'm the hot one. | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dying 100 times
Posts: 6,660
| | | it is weird.
i used to hate bisexuals, i kind of like them more now. at least the unrepressed ones, they seem less bothered about being judged for liking chicks with dicks or anything slightly abnormal.
i'd still never date one, unless they were strictly only aroused by abuse towards the females. | |
