I absolutely loved this film and I want to see it as many times as possible.

I've always liked Heath, so I don't care if his performance and the film itself are being over-hyped. He was astounding as the Joker, and not once did I look at him and think, "Oh, it's Heath in clown make-up."

I've also always loved Aaron Eckhart, and he did not disappoint me. HarveyDent/Two-Face has always been one of my favorite characters in the Batman universe because of his complexity and tragedy; Eckhart conveyed that beautifully. And I don't care how lame it sounds, but I cried when he first awoke in the hospital.

Anyone curious about Eckhart's other films should see him in In The Company of Men and Thank You For Smoking for starters.

I'll refrain myself from rambling on as I feel I'll just become more incoherent.

I haven't gotten to go see it again due to lack of babysitter, but I wish I could. The joker was awesome and ledger did an amazing job with it. This Joker would kick Tim Burton's joker's ass.

I too am a LOTR dork I got to see those many time and always on opening day.

Not really.

LOTR being fantastic has no bearing on The Dark Knight also being fantastic.

I'm just conveying my emotions, from being a big fan of Tolkien's stuff to being a fan of this franchise. It would only be natural.

BTW, Wildwoman, I have a feeling that having it set in Chicago, while not trying too hard to conceal that fact, was more to the point of the film. You see, Gotham was being cleaned up rather well by Batman for the past year. Before him, it was rather dark and bleak, so in BB you saw Gotham look dark(and in many people's minds that's how you'd picture Gotham)...but now a lot of the scenes are set in daylight, sort of perhaps giving you the impression that the dawn is indeed coming, and that Gotham was a safer place. Just one major nutjob left to clean everything up.

Batman Begins was also filmed in Chicago - I think you're right about the reasons for the different looks between the two movies, but I don't think two different cities are necessary, any large city would encompass both moods. Frank Miller said that Metropolis is New York in the daylight and Gotham City is New York at night.

I actually looked some of this stuff up last night (heading into the second week of vacation, so I'm almost completely nocturnal), and I'm thrilled to have the opening to bore you all with it!

Gotham was a nickname for New York since before Batman, which was the actual thing I wanted to know when I googled it. Washington Irving used it in a series of essays in 1807, drawing a parallel between NYC and an English town where the residents avoided paying taxes by pretending to be insane.

DC's Gotham has pretty much always combined elements of New York and Chicago (and various other cities, but those are the main ones). Alan Moore wrote a fictional history that gave it a founding story, and a revolutionary war history similar to New York's. The rampant corruption at every level is more similar to Chicago, at least in the 20th century (although New York was very much like that in the 19th century) and a longtime Batman artist whose name I didn't know before points to that, as well as the ubiquitous back alleys as a reason that he sees it as Chicago - I feel like we do have alleys here, but of course not knowing Chicago, I probably just don't realize how much more similar Chicago's alleys are, I don't think you can really travel through alleys in New York, I believe they're usually self-contained/one way.

Wikipedia had a list of various geographic references - Batgirl and Sandman comics placed as the capital of a state named Gotham, and although NYC is not the capital of NYS, referring to 'upstate Gotham' is directly analogous to what the entire rest of New York state is usually called. An issue of Man-Bat placed it in the central time zone, which would line it up with Chicago.

While I like to think of it as New York City, I don't need it to be - I'm happy to have it be NYC for me, because that's my city, while also having it be Chicago or any city that any viewer/reader wants it to be, because, really we should all be trying to save our own Gotham (also, AHEM, it's just not necessary that these things have only one answer, much like there is no reason I can't prefer BB to TDK even if certain people who take themselves way too seriously want to shriek at me over it, and I certainly don't think anyone who prefers TDK over BB is 'wrong', and while I didn't even bother to see the Lord of the Rings movies, I don't see any reason why other people can't like them).

I don't really think it should be very recognizable as a real city, any city - I wouldn't want to see the Empire State Building or the Brooklyn Bridge in a Batman movie. However, considering that I (and the NYT reviewer) had to be told it was that recognizable, I'm certainly in no position to complain about that.

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ARE YOU TALKING TO ME?????(in a taxi driver voice).


I just think you focused on really not defining or more "trivial"(and it's in quoations because nothing is really trivial in a good movie and TDK is like that, every aspect of it has a reason for being like any good script) aspects of the TDK instead of seeing its whole greatness.

I've always seen Gotham City as New York simply because in the comic books, the statue of liberty has been depicted in several Batman and Catwoman stories, so to me it's new york.


The choice of locations is yet another reason why Nolan's Batman is so good.

Since it's filmed on real cities and real locations, the movie feels real as opposed to Tim Burton's batmans wich were entirely filmed in soundstages and it shows.

In Batman Returns at the beginning when the circus gang makes its first appearance when they are going to light up the christmas tree, the whole city looks so fake and just made of cardboard and it feels like the city only has 500 citizens, I mean it's RIDICULOUS.

Maybe that was Tim Burton's vision and I respect that but after seeing Nolan's right on the money version, I can't see the Burton/Schumacher films in the same way ever again. They just feel ridiculous.

Although I really do like the noir/german expressionistic style of Batman Returns.

Nolan's Batman films don't have such eye catching style but to be honest, they don't need it. Nolan is substance over style and it works perfectly in the new series.

why do you have to insult me Wildy? I SAW YOUR REP!!!!

And I disagree. I think I haven't said anything remotely stupid in this thread and for me that is a HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT.

You didn't see a rep from me, because I didn't send you one. I don't do negative reps.

I'm as entitled to my opinion of the movie as you are. I liked Batman Beyond better because it spoke more to what I want out of a superhero movie. I never said what I want is all there can be, because I know the difference between opinion and fact, which is what you have so much trouble with. I'm also entitled to note a difference what they were trying to get across and how well I think it was done, even if it isn't the same thing you think.

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oh well, nevermind I thought it was yours. Sorry.

The Dark Knight owns either way.

Rumors are in the e news that Johnny Depp is being courted for the role of the riddler in the next Batman flick. For some reason this is unsettling for me. I like Batman Forever only because it is the 2nd movie I saw in theaters (after the lion king, I was five!). So I'm somewhat partial to Jim Carey as the Riddler.

Did anyone not like Katie Holmes in Batman Begins? Every time I saw here in a scene I would hear the Dawson's Creek theme song in my head.

Katie Holmes tarnished Batman Begins.

Batman Begins was fine.

The Rachel Dawes character was never THAT important enough to begin with, to the point even Holmes playing her could tarnish the film, whatsoever.

if morgan freeman dies, this film may be cursed

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she's a haunted house and her windows are broken

Yeah... I couldn't even laugh, I just felt embarassed.

Yeah, I seriously think that the "No, I'm not... I'm not." part was the best part of his performance. It was so understated but perfect.

Actually, until he's arrested, I feel that Heath's Joker is... well, I think it's brilliant, but I also felt like a number of other actors could have done it equal justice. And that includes Jack Nicholson. I felt that pre-interrogation room, the Joker was very reminiscent of Nicholson characters (not the Joker) - RP McMurphy and Jack Torrence, maybe.

After he's arrested though, I think there's only one man. It was then, actually when I thought "Shit, he really looks like Heath Ledger."

And her sideways mouth.

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the height of his performance is during the interrogation scene so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Stop getting so defensive here. You sound like an annoying teenage fancrush.