ok, I saw this movie yesterday and I hated it. I was really looking forward to it because I have a very deep Elizabeth Taylor obsession, and I've never seen a Katharine Hepburn movie, but I ended up hating it. I don't even know what the movie said. It said nothing!!!!!!!! It takes you nowhere. The movie leads you to believe that there is going to be this huge revelation about damn Sebastian's death yet nothing happens, and nothing is really cleared up. And what happened at the end??? Did aunt Violet lose her mind??? Did Catherine ended up with the doc?? it's all so confusing.

I kinda sensed at the beginning some homosexual undertone but the movie says nothing at the end. And Liz's acting, my god, how lame. And so melodramatic. I know that's the way people acted back then, and it's good but I didn't like it for some reason. Elizabeth looks beautiful and that is one of the good things of the movie, plus seeing Katharine who just fires up the screen. Her monologue about the turtles in the Encantadas gave me chills.


What are your other favorite Taylor movies?? I've just seen a few: Suddenly, Secret Ceremony, Cleopatra, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Giant. By far, the best out of those is Virginia Woolf.

you should definitely see 'a place in the sun' (that was her first non 'family' oreinted film, i think she was 18 in it). clift was in that one with her as well as suddenly last summer, but that was when he was still younger and not yet royally fucked up. he steals teh show. i'm on a big streak watching his shit lately...

and cat on a hot tin roof is a must see as well! as far as tennessee williams hollywood adapatations go, not the best one, but on the upper tier. the gay stuff was cut back a bit here too.... but what wasnt in the 50s?

giant kinda bored me. gotta say it... james dean has some great scenes, but overall i found it overrated.

I really hated Giant. I thought it was going to be the best movie ever(Liz, Jimmy and Rock, I mean can it get any more gayier than that?), but it was just so lame and boring.

Is Summer post the accident??? I mean is Cliff already scarred in it?? I saw him fine. But what do you think about Suddenly Last Summer?? I think I didn't get it. Or maybe there's nothing to get. Tell me.

yeah i believe he had the car wreck in 56 and last summer was in 59. its not so much that he was scarred a bit, as he just looked strikingly different cause they had to redo his entire face. tragic shit.

anyway, im not so sure theres anything to get. i mean, i feel like i need to read the play, the tended to change things around from williams' plays to make them intentionally vague, as to avoid controversy. for example as much as i like cat on a hot tin roof, i would not have got what they were 'hinting' at if i had not known the play before hand. but i need to see 'last summer' again. its been a while...it didnt stick with me as much as other williams works on film...

well I haven't seen much of williams, but I always remember Baby Doll. What an amazing movie.

ok, well i watched this tonight. just so i could talk about it with you. no haha i just felt like it...and i *sort of* take back that theres noting to get.... i think repeated viewings help. not like you'd want to do that though, it seems. lol.


*spoilers*
i think the revelation was about their repression and denial. basically, first we see what an unhealthy obsessive relationship he had with his mother. she was obsessed with him, he was perfect, he was a genius, he loved her and no other woman, she even said he was "chaste". but in reality, she stifled him and controled him. secondly, sebastian was a homosexual and in the perfect superior world of his mothers stifling love, he was totally repressed which caused him to go bad. he used to use her to pick up men. and then last summer he used catherine, cause his mother got too old. im not sure from just watching the film, whether or not these men willingly went to the bathhouses with him or not, but either way these trips they took every summer were the times he had these indescretions. on the beach in spain, some of these men, (some of them may even have been boys, im not sure) recognized him, and for some reason that im pretty sure is only mysterious due to the censors, these peasant boys had their revenge on him, i sensed some suggestion that they even may have mutilated his genitals. the idea of sebastian 'using people up' was refered to a number of times, so these people didnt randomly go after him. they were getting back at him for soemthing.

on some level his mother must have known this was going on, she was always with him. but he was so utterly idolized him, that she was in massive denial. so when she FINALLY heard the truth in spoken words, she had mental break. there was no ways he was going to attempt to accept the truth. she had catherine institutionalized and tried to lobotomize her because she felt all the things catherine had seen and experienced last summer with sebastian were all horrid lies. her denial drove her. so she totally retreated back into that world where he was alive and the perfect man she beleived him to be when she couldnt take it.

as for catherine, it seems that she was raped by the man at the deuling oaks, so i think the point of that was to setup that she had zero trust in men, sebastian and even her aunt just took adavantage of her. thats why she was so wild and crazy, from the rape on. but when the doctor entered her life, he was sympathetic to her, spoke to her with respect and gave her freedom, didnt discount anything she said, just his demeanor towards her was so open and kind, totally in contrast to any of the other characters. so her mind healed in a sense, and she was able to remember these things clearer.

as for the face of god and devourign birds stuff... i think that sebastians search for god started out as a way to free his true self and be free of ther repression. but it wasnt working. everything he saw made him believe awful things about the world, which he just let happen. it solidified in him the drive to do these bad things that led him to be killed by the men ont he beach in spain. his mother did not understand his darkness because of her denial...


as for liz's acting, i really didnt see how it was more meldramatic in this film than in others. i actually quite liked her here, i felt she carried the whole thing, she was the best one here to me. and yes she did look copletely stunning!! clift didnt seem drunk to me at all, although supposedly he was throughout the whole thing. and katherine is in fact pretty awesome. so distinctive!

IF YOU READ ALL THAT I APPLAUD YOU. lol.

people don't realise, because she's old and weird now, that once upon a time elizabeth taylor was not *a* goddess, she was *the* goddess.

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yes I DID read it!!! lol. It was great. When I saw the picture I came to that conclusion in part because I knew about the movie before and about the supposed homosexual undertone or something. All those things are implied but they are soooo subtle it's annoying. I think that if it weren't for the censors the movie would've been so much richer. It's like Cat on a hot tin roof, that movie suffered greatly because of the censors.

Also, Baby Doll. This is offtopic but that movie is so kinky I don't know how it got past the censors, lol.

you're totally right. People just see her as a fragile old lady with big hair.

yeah i get where you're coming from on the censorship issue. and lots of directors and writers WANTED to put it onscreen, but the damn Legion of Decency wouldnt let them. fuck them. lol

but on the other hand, in this relatively 'nothings shocking / we've seen it all' society we have today......i dont know, its makes for such a desenstized climate in which to make movies. so no one is forced to think about artful subtley and suggestion. in some cases that can be better than showing it all. theres no true contrvoersy anymore, controversy is so cliche and 'shocking' things have a stink of 'look at me im such a rebel' type desperation. so there are pros and cons to living in a more 'accepting' world, i mean artwise strictly of course...

yes I know what you mean. I'm trying to think of a movie that's shocking but that it's subtle and I can't think of any. Swimming Pool came to mind but there's nothing really shocking about it, it's just very sexy. I mean there are shocking subtle movies like The Hours or The Others but I'm trying to think Suddenly type pf shocking, nothing comes to mind.

I'm sorry but I've lost so much respect for you. "Suddenly, Last Summer" is brilliant and obviously way over your head.

Her whole re-telling the story at the end brought tears to my eyes the first time I saw it. It was chilling and gruesome and amazing.

Like I said, I don't know how you're going to call yourself an Elizabeth Taylor fan. Plus the fact that you disagree with her performance. This is the other movie she was cheated out of an Oscar from. And then she finally got one for Butterfield 8 which no one thought she deserved.

But don't even bother seeing Cat on a Hot Tin Roof then if you didn't like this. You won't get it.

You don't understand. The woman is the EPITOME of beauty.

To me, she is the most gorgeous woman on the planet.

I even remember the first time I saw her. I used to be a Michael Jackson fan and when I was a child, I used to watch his music videos and there were shots of her old movies in his "Leave Me Alone" video! Does anyone remember that? That's the first time I laid eyes on her.

And I've just loved her ever since. My Mom likes her too. She can name all her husband off the top of her head. And I remember that because it was a question on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and she got that question right!

when did I made this thread??? it must've been ages ago.

Since I have TCM channel I've had the chance to see many Taylor movies and I recant EVERYTHING negative I've ever said about Elizabeth Taylor.

I still think she's a total hypochondriac but she was an amazing actress.

You only have to see Giant to realize that. I've also seen Virginia Woolf and many others.

I saw Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and not only is it the sexiest movie I've ever seen, she puts on a great performance and THAT shoudlv'e been her first Oscar, not Summer.

Suddely Last Summer is really good too but that's a Hepburn movie I'm sorry. She did deserve the nomination wich she got, but that's were it ends.


I LOVE Elizabeth Taylor. And I can name all her husbands from the top of my head.

if you want to see a great james dean movie, see "east of eden." its one of my all-time favorites.

i expected "cat on a hot tin roof" to be a bit better, but the acting was awesome. anything paul newman does is killer. elizabeth taylor no doubt was great as well.

I loved East of Eden as well, great movie.

But Giant is just so beautiful, it's life right there, marriage, having kids, it's just great.

Suddenly is definately her movie. It seems that every movie she sppears in becomes hers. I love her.

I have not seen all that many Taylor movies, but my favorite by far is Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

I still remember her monologue about The Encantadas, the sea turtles, the gulls and the face of God. It sent shivers down my spine.