For example- I adore The Slits and many people hate them- think they are ugly and are horrible musicians. What I say to that is- yes they weren't good they weren't talented, they made no point or expressed no profound message in their music but I personally find their songs catchy and that's why I like them.

how is this about their content and not just your opinion? i see nothing here but "and i like them."

you seem to be hung up on "ugly." did you have some ugliness issues as a child? beauty is subjective -- that's why you think clove was pretty and cleetus thinks she's heinous.

i see you trying to make points, but you get all wound up in academia, use a bunch of fancy ideas and fail to make an actual point. it makes you sound like a pompous ass. but don't take that personally.

You only read what you want to.

I followed my comment on The Slits with:

"I'm at the point where I stick with the truth and I am mature enough to know that romanticism within rock doesn't exist anymore. (I guess when you are 17 you are still in the dark.)"

Meaning... that despite the fact that I love the slits I KNOW that they fail to make any valid positive/feminist point. If someone were to criticize them on that point I'd agree. At 17 I probably would have bitched and moaned like the girls on this board are doing.

Sorry you hate school. As far as making points- at least I'm trying to get to the bottom of what BK had to offer and all I’m getting are whiny snippets of "boo hoo".

Sweetheart- why don't you defend BK and Toby Vail and answer my previous post on what their message was, what their lyrics pertained too., who were influenced by them....etc? Maybe because you can't. It's understandable, but I guess that pushes the pompous ass count to two.

-Marilyn

my sum total of experience with bikini kill is such: i was working at black market records in san francisco and i heard a song of theirs i liked. it was a slow sorta sad song. i bought pussy whipped. i've listened to it but i was never in the BK army. i always thought they were interesting and kathleen hanna intrigued me. i also thought she was pretty. as far as her manifesto, i don't know that it rocked my world because i don't remember much of it. i was reading paglia at the time, that resonated more for me.

flash forward a bunch of years and kathleen is still making music in le tigre, a band which i quite like. she's older and still pretty. as far as i know she's been doin her own thing for all these years with little or no idiotic behaviors to underscore the fact that she's still "around." i can respect that.

what more is there to justify? i just don't care that you don't think tobi vail isn't cute and that you think BK somehow failed at feminism. without giving it too much thought, i'd say they actually succeeded because they never did anything to contradict their efforts. they're still chicks in bands and i can respect that as being a feminist effort in and of itself.

by the way, i don't hate school at all. it's just that i got my degree about ten years ago so i don't need to try to impress anyone with my ideas about feminism and post post modernism.

Doesn't Bikini Kill have some retarded songs about "refusing to use your white privelige" and "kill white boy mentality"? If so, then that's pretty ghey. I don't care about their feminism or whether they scrawled "whore" on their stomachs, but their ideology and stupid ideas on things in general are enough to make me hate them.

So you can't do a search and find lyrics by them? They write in English you know, you can get it. Even I do. And they don't use super long complicated words. You can easily get what they mean. But if you want a commentary for each song, then we'll be glad to do it.

I agree with you about Kathleen Hanna and I'm personally a fan of hers because she's an extremely intelligent, thoughtful writer with important messages to relay to her female fans. I love reading her essays

However, I was discussing Tobi Vail and BK as A UNIT. Kathleen Hanna shines outside of the mediocre noise fest that BK produced. Tobi just fizzled - her current band sucks ass, and BK, looking back, still makes no statement. I respect that you like them and it's true that starting an all girl band is a feminist effort, but, again in my opinion, pretty pointless if you don't have a strong message to convey or a powerful solution to back up all the ranting and raving.

I also don’t respect BK’s half assed attempt at making music. No- it’s not ok for girl to aspire to make shitty music just for the sake of “picking up a guitar and getting on stage”. What’s wrong with learning how to shred a guitar and create melodies? At least a serious attempt from them in creating listenable music would have placed them above and beyond the mediocre shadow they fall in- another shitty girl band with too much time on their hands. I have yet to read in interviews of ANYONE being inspired by them.
The Donnas have more goddamn street credibility than these chicks.

-Marilyn

Take your own advice- I'm not the one defending them. Their lyrics suck and I can understand why you do not want to post them.

-Marilyn

do people actually think that they;re ugly? because they weren't.

This has nothing to do with the discussion, but why the hell do you sign your posts? I mean, noone gives a fuck if your name is Marilyn, and if you wanted us to know, why isn't it your username.

Sorry, it just annoys me.

It was before - but then I had to register again.....thanks for caring though! LOL

-Marilyn

Some of their lyrics were just kinda a bunch of images thrown together...which i personally thought were effective. I always liked the lyrics to 'Rebel Girl' most of all...and as no-one is posting lyrics - here you go...

That girl thinks she's the queen of the neighborhood
She's got the hottest trike in town
That girl she holds her head up so high
I think I wanna be her best friend, yeah

Rebel girl, Rebel girl
Rebel girl you are the queen of my world
Rebel girl, Rebel girl
I think I wanna take you home
I wanna try on your clothes oh

When she talks, I hear the revolution
In her hips, there's revolution
When she walks, the revolution's coming
In her kiss, I taste the revolution

Rebel girl, Rebel girl
Rebel girl you are the queen of my world
Rebel girl, Rebel girl
I know I wanna take you home
I wanna try on your clothes oh

That girl thinks she's the queen of the neighborhood
I got news for you, she is!
They say she's a dyke, but I know
She is my best friend, yeah

Rebel girl, Rebel girl
Rebel girl you are the queen of my world
Rebel girl, Rebel girl
I know I wanna take you home
I wanna try on your clothes

Love you like a sister always
Soul sister, Rebel girl
Come and be my best friend
Will you Rebel girl?
I really like you
I really wanna be your best friend
Be my Rebel girl

Alot of people I know can't stand them and have called them every name in the book. I personally am in love with Ariana.... they are insane - I LOVE THEM.









XOXO ARI XOXO

-Marilyn

I suspect Candy-O has never even heard Bikini Kill and her main problem is that Tobi fucked Kurt.

Yes, the musicianship is infantile, but it's hardly unlistenable. Every one of their records is far more accessable than something like Pretty on the Inside.
And if you're too stupid to understand that very simplistic songwriting and crude musicianship can still sound good then you're probably missing out on a a lot of other bands asides from Bikini Kill.

I'm not a feminist. I just listen to them because I like the songs. But I think this song has a good message:

"I Like Fucking"

Hey do you believe there's anything beyond troll-guy reality?
I do. I do. I do.

It get's so hard
Just to be okay
Sometimes being happy baby
Is what I'm most afraid of
Baby you know
It gets so hard for me to fight
I don't know how
I guess I never did
Why don't you show me now
How to lose control

(She's so very I don't care) [x2]

Just cuz my world sweet sister
Is so fucking goddamn full of rape
Does that mean my body must always be a source of pain?
No. No. No.

(She's so very I don't care) [x2]

Just cuz I named it right here sweet chickadee
Don't mean for a minute you should think
I'm the opposite of anything
But if you wanna know for sure I'll tell you
We're not gonna prove nothing, nothing
Sittin around watching each other starve
What we need is action/strategy
I want. I want. I want.
I want it now.

What I want. I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure babe
I do. I do. I do.

On the contrary- I borrowed "Bikini Kill' on vinyl about 5 years ago. If it hadn't belonged to someone else, I would have trashed it right away.

As far as Tobi fucking Kurt- I actually like her because of that. Actually, it ignited my curiosity in her, especially after the horrible album that played on my turntable.

-Marilyn

Well, I think that Kathleen Hanna and Bikini Kill is the same. That it has to be seen as a Unit (at least as long BK existed)
Kathleen Hanna's message is BK's message or the other way round.
I think not everybody has the energie and self-confidence to put (in this case) herself in the spotlight like Kathleen hanna did and still does. But I think that BK agreed w/most of Kathleen's statements and are therfore behind those statements.
The songs, essays, fanzines and interviews belong together. All of them convey the message of Bikini Kill.
Some people find it easier to understand the music. Some rather listen to interviews or read essays. The message stays the same.

and really: just because YOU don't like/understand BK's music that does not mean that the music in itself is horrible. It just means that you think it is. Same goes for Tobi's new band.

My vote goes here for one of the most retarded, degrading to the brain of its posters' threads ever.