what? you make no sense.

Tangerine is making sense, as she is referencing Willem Dafoe's excellent portrayal of Jesus (with Harvey Keitel as Judas and David Bowie as Pontius Pilate) in Martin Scorsese's highly contorversial film, The Last Temptation of Christ.
Jesus ponders what it would be like if instead of sacrificing himself, he chooses a life for himself.

oh ok, I wasn't aware such film existed. Well he does look hot on that picture but he was really unsexy in Body of Evidence, I don't know if you've seen it.

Maybe I'm going to far by saying he's ugly, he's not ugly really but he doesn't fit in a movie like Body of Evidence. You don't chose a character actor or someone who is not conventionally pretty for a movie that's meant to be steaming hot, because it doesn't work and it didn't work with that movie.

Oh, I understand. My own attraction to Willem started when I saw him in Platoon, a role which suited him quite well. He has a different type of sexuality, a little fiercer and more rugged than most male actors. To me, Madonna is a total dominator; she absolutely overpowers men. Not saying she needed a pretty boy in Body of Evidence, just someone who isn't as rough around the edges as Dafoe. A more classical type of chiseled good looks type of guy who can appear to have that tough demeanor, but someone Madonna can totally dominate.

A great example of Dafoe being completely sexual and highly appealing is in the film New Rose Hotel with Asia Argento, a woman with the same appeal as Dafoe. Granted, she is younger than him, but she has the confidence and raw sexuality of an older woman much like Madonna, but with a darker edge. They had a fantastic scene together, swimming in a pool at night, which leads them in his bed with her on top; their chemistry was stunning.

I can't tell if I'm making sense right now, but it's far too late where I am and so I must get some sleep.

If I did that would kill most of the godawful 80's cheezball flicks I'm fond of when I want some mindless entertainment.

yes, you make sense and I agree.

oh, has it gone to video already?

bump.

this is an interesting thread...

I appreciate your thoughts, and thank you for responding to my post on The Piano. You may be older, but you aren't necessarily "wiser" for having a different point of view on something like this though, thank you very much! This is so subjective.

I get the whole point about intelligence and good acting ability (Marlon in "Streetcar" ) but your "real man" definition isn't for everyone, and God knows, testosterone doesn't make a man more intelligent or a better actor. Besides, once you get to know a "pretty boy" you'll find they're sometimes more masculine than the "men who look like men" because - oh, God, I dunno. The Napolean Complex and all that.

Just as (maybe - I'm speculating) you've encountered "pretty boys" who were total jerks, I've met men of a "certain age" who are deeply cynical characters. They behave as if I'm just one more annoying bitch in a life-time of annoying bitches, out to exploit them and get special treatment ... Sometimes they'll comment adversely on my appearance, or on the appearance of other women. (Sorry, this is a VERY long diversion, but I need to explain.) My mother has many, many baby boomer friends, you see. Many are swingers who bed down en masse at weekends (yes. Swingers. Real ones. It's terrible.) There's this quality of bitchiness and unnecessary spite towards women that I notice in a quite a few of the 45 or 50+ straight males. Far be it from me to generalize all middle aged men of course, but if a much older man like many I've encountered is truly As Good As It Gets for women beyond the age of thirty, I'll be more than happy just masturbating.

I admit I go a little mad writing about 'The Piano', deploying that whole "I think, therefore I am"/"I am, therefore it is" routine. After this, I swear I'll shut up about that particular film, but doing film studies, all these academics insist it's so very daring and ground-breaking and important and to me, the message of the film is, "Mouth shut, legs apart: check out this enigmatic goddess!" and the casting alone capitulates to every cinema convention: a middle aged actor plays the love interest to a woman young enough to be his daughter. Holly Hunter was 35 at the time; Keitel was 54. (Rewind to the mid 1970s when he played the pimp so well in "Taxi Driver", and I could have found him attractive and the story a lot more plausible.)

I'm not sure what you meant by this but it reminds me of something Sharon Stone said during the promotion of Basic Instinct 2. She said something on the lines of: "you always see Sean Connery and his granddaughter, or Kevin Costner and his daughter", and it's never the other way around, or better said, women are never allowed to be sexual and powerful over 40.

Forget about wether Basic Instinct is a good movie or not, I think it makes a bold statement. People were shocked, someone yelled "what a slut" in the theater, but the question that remains in my head is this: how come no one thinks James Bond is a slut?? and he's just as promiscous as Sharon's character.

I just love Catherine Tramell because she's so threatening to men and women. She has all the male power, but she has a vagina. She's a succesful millionaire(she made the money), she drives cool cars, she fucks men(they don't fuck her, there's a difference) and she's over 40. Some people might disagree saying "oh well, sharon is also a sex symbol or whatever" but let's analyze the character, yes she's very sexual and slutty but remember she's a very succesful writer, in other words she didn't sleep her way to the top. I think she's an empowering character.

You should watch Ken Park. It has a prty good male masturbation scene that I fapped to a couple of times.

My writing can be awfully rambling. If you weren't sure what I meant, I'm sure it was my fault! But yes, that Sharon Stone quote was exactly what I meant.

I've not seen Basic Instinct in a really long time, but I did like Sharon Stone's character for the reasons you outlined. Was Catherine Tramell meant to be over 40 in the first movie too? If so, that IS pretty bold (for a mainstream Hollywood movie).
I've always taken comfort in Sharon Stone for being (amongst other things) about 34 years old in Basic Instinct (it sounds silly, but I know I'm not alone in this!). It wasn't her first movie, but it was the role that really made her a household name. (And no matter what people found wrong with that movie, I've never heard anyone say Sharon Stone was too old for it.)
Sometimes I feel like there's a whole culture waggling a finger at me and reminding me that I've got to hurry up and achieve something or other by the age of 21, 23, 25 and definitely before the age of 30. Sharon Stone put paid to this - a little. Like Madonna put paid to all that "biological clock ticking down" stuff by having her first baby when she was about 38.

Oh btw, remember you asked me about Heath Ledger stories? I'd love to be able to tell you I have some, but I don't. Just that he lived very nearby, has a very rich family and went to the "best" all boys Anglican school in the state. If he ever visits his family at all, he must do it completely incognito. I've NEVER heard or seen a story in the local press about him coming back here, only to Melbourne or Sydney.

hell yes. obviously.

even more disturbing and rage-worthy are those CSI, crime-drama type shows that are starting to show rape scenes really explicitly... and the fucked up spirit of the scenes - "look and the poor women and evil man... plus you get to see some snatch!" - type deal. the whole notion that you HAVE to show scenes graphically like that is such a joke. and LAZY laZY film/tv making.

It's a reflexion of how women are still put up as a sex object, and that's crap, even though I'm a big fan of the female body. I promess that when I become a director, I'll make a film called ''The Phallus''.

That reminds me of this Shirley Manson interview I read few years ago. She was telling about the time she wore a dress/shirt with a guy, masturbating, print. Since then, she found out she could never know other ways, than that one, to successfuly intimidate people - especially the males.

Yes yes yes, I know what you're talking about (and am now a little embarrassed because it sounded like I've been sucked into all that hype). I have to stress that I was only talking about Brad in 'Thelma & Louise', and specifically how the seduction/sex scenes with Geena Davis were filmed.

You're SO right about what has happened to him and his movies due to the relentless hype over his alleged sexiness. It's just too in your face for me to even find 'it' or him attractive anymore.

no, she was meant to be 34 in Basic Instinct, the first one. The character itself is bold, I think. BI2, the different element is she's 47 and she still rules, and she still has money and she still fuck guys and is at the top of her game. Also, I don't know why but I just love the fact that she's a 47 year YOUNG woman and she has no desire of getting married or having kids. In the real world, a woman like that would be considered a hag, yet a man in the same circumstances is considered still a bachelor. How retarded. But she's just totally cool with that fact.

I also didn't like how the press reacted to BI2. Websites like dlisted and perezhilton.com had comments like "who wants to see sharon's old vagina" and things like that,. I know those sites are meant to be humoristic, but seriously how will gender equality be achieved??? with those types of double standards.

Whether the movie's good or bad, I can imagine nasty comments like that, and it saddens me.

One reason I love a lot old movies is that often there were female characters who were interesting, strong, funny, sexy, interesting, clever, independent - and not always young. And it wasn't treated as a big deal or anything. In these movies, it's just taken for granted that such women exist and are a normal fact of life.
Mae West was 40 years old when she said to Cary Grant, "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?" ("She Done Him Wrong", 1933).
In "Dinner At Eight" in 1933 there's this very bawdy, brainy old single woman who is the mentor to every other character in the movie. I can't remember her name, but she isn't remotely attractive or young, just a talented actress who had a fantastic role. It's quite strange to see this. You keep thinking, "Huh? When's somebody going to be grossed out at the idea of kissing her? When's the old lady going to be made the butt of the joke?" and it never happens.
A very young and beautiful Jean Harlow had a great part in "Dinner At Eight" too. She's meant to be sexy, but not stupid or submissive. Her husband tries telling her what to do, and says he'll "sock" her if she disobeys, and Jean Harlow responds:

"Who do you think you're talking to, that first wife of yours out in Montana? Poor meely-faced thing with a flat chest that didn't have nerve enough to talk up to you? Washing out your greasy overalls and cooking and slaving in some lousy mining shack? No wonder she died!"

(I had to look on imdb to make sure I got the line right.)
Jean Harlow's meant to be cheating on this guy too, and you expect she'll be "punished" for it somehow, but she isn't - if the movie had been made in the 1950's (and quite possibly even now!), you know she'd have been made to pay somehow.
Frances Farmer plays a brainy, strong woman in "Come And Get It" too, made in 1936.

Unfortunately William Randolph Hearst and the "Motion Picture Production Code" came along and put a stop to a lot of this "immorality" in Hollywood movies. As a result, in a lot of movies, strong (or bad) women are so often killed in a convenient car accident or "tamed" by some guy by the end. Not always, but often.