I do agree with a lot of points being made in this thread, and 30% of me is just playing devil's advocate. But I truly believe that special interest groups based on the minorities will never help us beat the majority.

As soon as I said something about the separation of classes, you all assumed i was a straight white guy. Even though it affects ALL of us, it's considered to be an issue for "working class straight white guys" because those people have nothing else to worry about. I agree with that. BUT the issue DOES still affect ALL of us. Most people aren't gay (or so modern science would have us believe). Most people in America aren't black. But most people in the world ARE working too hard for the money they make, while strategic marketing convinces us to give all of our money right back to the rich.

Women can fight for more rights, so can black people, so can gays, so can anyone. But right now, the truth is, women dont have enough power to change the government's way of doing things. Neither do gay people. Neither do black people. Neither do "illegal aliens." NONE OF US have that much of a voice. It's because ALL OF US are shouting about something different. If We all started saying the same fucking thing, and started fighting the same fucking battle, we'd win. Easily. Quickly. But yeah, classic divide-and-conquer tactics have been put in place. There's no focus on "right versus wrong," because it's black vs white vs women vs straight man vs gay man vs bi vs poor vs rich vs tall vs short.

And we all pray that things will get better for the people that we "identify" with. There are like 300,000,000 people in this country. Less than 200 REALLY have control. And every couple years, we vote for a democrat or a republican, and we pretend that that's enough of a choice, that we'll be able to find someone who represents Us. Bullshit.

Until the world is truly governed by it's peoples, we will be led by a select few who dont give a shit about ANY of us. That will never happen while we're squabbling in the streets about whatever may be the "issue of the week."

I don't care who or what you are. But if you're human, and you want to be happy and live in a fairly peaceful world, I'd like to call you my ally. Because the people who control everything we know... they're only out for themselves.

if theyre working in the firsr place they shouldnt be bitching!
haha
i think its more than just physical imprisonment too tho
and all so called solutional ideas still stem from the very foundations of what have allowed this to NATURALLY occur
THEY merely set the course
weve never gone back far enough to truly change anythingthat being said
im a total fucking hypocrit

For the record, I was going to respond to your first post saying that I am a good example of someone who doesnt know shit about feminism and yet... it irks me.

The same thing can be said about most people who don't dedicate their lives to it. Which is a clear indication that feminism will never work. Their goals will never be met BECAUSE most people dont care enough to learn to understand it.

I don't know anything about Germaine Greer, but I will look into her work. If it's any consolation, I used to live with Pam Grier's neice.

dayum yo those mandarins gave me da poops
brb

agreed (i hope your first line was sarcasm though).

we never have truly changed anything. that sucks. but we need to at least start taking some baby steps, no?

if i went in to vote, and i saw 15 candidates listed, every one of them from an independent party, no republicrats... yeah.i think it'd be an improvement, dont you? and given our fucked disposition, isnt an "improvement" all we can hope for, for now?

that's not gonna happen anytime soon. but that's the kind of new direction we should be moving towards, at least in that general direction.

truth is, it'll blow up soon and there will be like 43 of us left to start over the right way.



p.s. where the FUCK is frodo when ya really need him?!

no i dont think thatd be an improvement
i think itd be a strategical advance and a diversion
clever too
43 and an indestructable thawng pile!
thats how thawngz will turly be the gods in the next world
we'll wake up from a 2 week blackout no memory
greengrass!
and a thawng pile which we MUSTVE CAME FROM
myths will be started
praise thawng!

Why? There are plenty of despicable women in the world who are completely unloveable and don't deserve your love. You must have met one or two women who you not only didn't "love", but didn't even like, surely?

I know I'm being anal and nitpicky now but for some reason it sets my teeth on edge when a guy repeatedly claims to "love women". I know you don't mean it in a pejorative sense but it reminds me of somebody saying, "I love cats" or "I love dogs" or something. Surprisingly often I even hear guys say, "I love women. They're wonderful creatures." It drives me up the wall. It's like that song by the 90s band Lush, "Ladykiller":
The guy with long hair and the muscles/Is telling me that women are superior to men/"Most guys just don't appreciate this ... "

Jesus, this thread has turned me into one seething bitch.

ihate that too
"i love women"
haha

Germaine Greer's one of those people who is just awesome. It doesn't really even matter anymore who she was or what she did, all that's important is that she goes on debate programmes and is brilliant. She's like a female Tony Benn. Good value for money and looks like one of your grandparents.

But I don't know that you need to know everything about feminism to "get" it. Feminism is a movement based on a central ideology (the goal of improved women's rights; I say improved because equality is not always stated), but like any movement or school of thought there is argument about the specifics. It's not possible to "know" them, because they're still changing, still being argued out. You'll struggle to find any major movement - particularly, it has to be said, any left-wing movement - where the ethos is not under discussion.

Much as it looks like I'm trying to get out of being ignorant, there isn't a right or wrong here. My argument against the likes of Valerie Solanas is that I believe in equality between genders, and strongly dispute her belief in female emotional superiority. This is not because I know nothing about feminism, it's because I consider myself a feminist.

Well, thank you for the concession.
Sorry for being so carping about you saying you love women. Come to think of it I like to think I "love men", or at least find them loveable for the most part, so that last post of mine was unnecessary.

im inconsiderate!able

I hate people who say "I don't hate anyone", and then try and draw a distinction between disliking someone so much you'd rip their arse off and sit on their face with it and hating them.

anyone" is a even vaguer term

maybe i could've been more accurate if i said "i love people." i appreciate women because they're strong in circumstances that most men would cower under. but i guess im just hopeful in general, and id rather focus on that than all the stories i could tell about the crazy bitches ive dated. so i will stand by my statement. i love women. sue me. crazy bitch.

and if wanting women to be equal to men is all ya need to be a feminism, then call me a feminist. but the movement has been tainted in a lot of ways that still make it unappealing to me. "women's rights! grow your armpit hairs! change the world!" unfortunately, that's what's blasted in my ears, rather than someone like Ms. Greer.

Yeah, that's part of the reason that support for it waned, because when it seemed to have achieved equality a lot of people lost interest; thus a larger percentage of the people still affiliated with the movement were the wacky "men are unnecessary" people.

Feminist issue I've heard raised - "if women could have children without men, where would that leave men in society?" When I heard that, I left out loud.

women?(behavioural box?)
or females?(differentickypartsthanmales)

They didn't say. But thanks for being one of the few people who "get" the difference between gender and sex organs.

gender is a fag