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08-21-2006, 11:39 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci It just seems kinda depressing to think that what you're attracted to could be reduced to a gene. I mean, presumably there's a straight gene too. Doesn't it bother them that their sexual orientation could be flicked like a switch? | I know. It's so absurd to me: if there's a gene that governs sexual orientation, what else does it also cover? Cos you KNOW there's a ton of other shit that pop biology is assuming comes with sexual orientation. The entire basis is fucked.
What do you mean, straight gene? ALL THE OTHER GENES ARE STRAIGHT.
: / Quote: |
I just assume that, if I assume any kind of parental responsibility, it'll be as an uncle. I think there's a value in that greater than any cack-handed attempt I might to raise a child full-time. I'm much better at it when I know it's not forever.
| I'm an aunt already, and although it's nice, I want my own family. I want all of that permanence and inescapability and I want to still be able to be me and do it.
The last guy I was with told me he thought that was impossible - that I'd have to abandon either my notions of what a family could be or my wish to have a family. When I have happy kids, I'm gonna send him their tiny turds in the mail. | 
08-21-2006, 11:43 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | I AAAAAAM THE PWINCESSSSSSSSSSSS
i do what i want
dont try to anal eyes me 
its not always kids clothes theyre just the best usually 
haha
really ive been doin it since i was a kid no reason who knows
i was gonna say im a basic "crossdresser thing but
in reality
all things so called "feminine and pwity" were made SPECIFICALLY for me(females just genenerally jack mah stylee)
it may have took some time
but here i am 
haha
so im not crossdressing other people are "princess dressing"
actually females went so far as to genetically evolve breasts to mimic my stuffing
and feral children (suposedly?)never develop a physiological sexdrive"
thats pretty cool
however you can say thats "unnatural cos humans are "social animals by natcha" | 
08-21-2006, 11:49 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by fagarielina I AAAAAAM THE PWINCESSSSSSSSSSSS
i do what i want
dont try to anal eyes me  | I just have the feeling that you're not being honest about the way sexual pleasure factors in. Other people's if not yours. Sorry. Quote:
its not always kids clothes theyre just the best usually 
haha
really ive been doin it since i was a kid no reason who knows
i was gonna say im a basic "crossdresser thing but
in reality
all things so called "feminine and pwity" were made SPECIFICALLY for me(females just genenerally jack mah stylee)
it may have took some time
but here i am 
haha
so im not crossdressing other people are "princess dressing"
actually females went so far as to genetically evolve breasts to mimic my stuffing
| What do you think you're capable of that women aren't? What's the purpose of you? Quote:
and feral children (suposedly?)never develop a physiological sexdrive"
thats pretty cool
| Yeah. That's true, and it is cool. But what do you think it means? That there's no such thing as a fnudamental physiological sex drive outside of culture? Quote: |
however you can say thats "unnatural cos humans are "social animals by natcha"
| What nature exists outside of culture, if sexual nature does not? | 
08-21-2006, 11:55 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | the thawng that always was is and always will be?
im a mesenger sent by the allmighty thawngasaurii to spread the word of the correct spelling of thawng
thats it
its a dirty jawb but someone gota do it
sexual pleasure is really kinda not a big deeal?
i mean i massabate (in da mirror haha
but thats it it doesnt really mean much to me
i bussa nut i move on wit mah day
haha
and shared sexual stuff is just icky
but like i may have mentioned here earlier
accordiong to 20/20 "asexuality" is a real "clinical? thing
WE (hahahahaha) have no desire to get it on with othuhz howeva we do massabate it doesnt matta to what or whateva but we just aint want none dat?
haha we
fuck that shit  | 
08-21-2006, 12:10 PM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by fagarielina the thawng that always was is and always will be?
im a mesenger sent by the allmighty thawngasaurii to spread the word of the correct spelling of thawng
thats it
its a dirty jawb but someone gota do it
sexual pleasure is really kinda not a big deeal?
i mean i massabate (in da mirror haha
but thats it it doesnt really mean much to me
i bussa nut i move on wit mah day
haha
and shared sexual stuff is just icky
but like i may have mentioned here earlier
accordiong to 20/20 "asexuality" is a real "clinical? thing
WE (hahahahaha) have no desire to get it on with othuhz howeva we do massabate it doesnt matta to what or whateva but we just aint want none dat?
haha we
fuck that shit  | will have to read more about asexuality. can you link me to the article?
most of the people i know that have been that asexual kind of celibate for any length of time have done so because they've been colossally unhappy. either personally or because for whatever reason their sexuality wasn't comfortable for them to express openly. but what do i know. | 
08-21-2006, 12:18 PM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: uli, JU
Posts: 299
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the old town Demographic analysis shows that compared to the other types of sexual and sexual/violent offences, social exclusion is not a particularly prevalent factor, nor is alcohol/substance abuse, and perpetrators come from a greater range of backgrounds (though there is, of course, a marked preference for convicting socially excluded men). In other words, men who rape women are not necessarily mad, deprived of sex (though that's problematic for me for reasons I won't bother to go into here), substance-dependent, or desperate: if you need a common causative factor, you have to look elsewhere. | Does this apply to the rapists of strangers? I'm doubting it. | 
08-21-2006, 12:23 PM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by bunny gamer Does this apply to the rapists of strangers? I'm doubting it. | Read the report I sent you!
No, you're right, men who rape strangers show marked increases in psychopathy (interestingly, lack of empathy is not associated with men who rape women they know), substance misuse, low IQ (sub-80 and you have real recidivism problems), and social exclusion.
Men who rape strangers are also more likely to rape other men, though, and male children. That's why I said 'men who rape women'. I dunno, it's a bit solipsistic, maybe wrong even, but I was assuming that the factors aggregate rather than having nothing to do with one another.
Last edited by the old town : 08-21-2006 at 12:43 PM.
| 
08-21-2006, 12:33 PM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | | it was a tv news show thing i heard about a couple months ago
i dunno haha
maybe ill look for it
im colosally "unhappy" but its ok "happiness" isnt the bottom line and esentially obsolete
but still regardless of that sexual stuff is gross
seems like a weird physically awkward positional situation to be in
nothing i wanna partake in haha
not a big deal but nothing i really consider or care to get involved in
kinda pointless really haha | 
08-21-2006, 04:45 PM
|  | Occam's chainsaw | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: goin down in a blaze of glory
Posts: 7,072
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci the same respect I would treat anyone else (which I'll admit is still very little). | you jerk! Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci Then again, when I'm with someone, I think I'm a lot more feminine, in the conventional sense of being more emotional, more comfortable with vulnerability and so forth. So bleh. | You sap! Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci and I think a big part of that is that I don't say anything about it unless it's appropriate. This is not because I'm ashamed, it's because 90% of the time it's irrelevant. .....
So I dunno, with an intersex person, how often does the fact that they are intersex even come up? | Well I can't speak for what it's like to be an intersex person because I'm not one, but I think discussing sexual orientation and things like that are sort of a natural part of being close friends (if these things aren't already obvious). You may be friends with someone at uni and not know them very well but eventually I think the issue of your sexual preference will come up since relationships play a big part in people's lives (even if it's the absence of them). In her case, I think the she feels that this is something that is important to her identity. (and therefore it is). She doesn't want to hide it, much like some homosexuals get tired of hiding that or skirting the issue. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci To be fair, the percentage of social encounters I have where a person reveals their genitals to me is far lower than it should be. |  She didn't reveal her genitals to me. I guess I've taken her word for it, much like people will take your word that you're gay even if you don't have gay sex with them.
And I don't think I could detect anything out of the ordinary if she did show them to me because she herself didn't know until she didn't get a period well past when she should have and went to see a doctor about it. It's not like all intersex people have a penis, you know? Her differences are internal. | 
08-21-2006, 07:50 PM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: uli, JU
Posts: 299
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by fagarielina it was a tv news show thing i heard about a couple months ago
i dunno haha
maybe ill look for it
im colosally "unhappy" but its ok "happiness" isnt the bottom line and esentially obsolete
but still regardless of that sexual stuff is gross
seems like a weird physically awkward positional situation to be in
nothing i wanna partake in haha
not a big deal but nothing i really consider or care to get involved in
kinda pointless really haha | I know a guy who has a lot in common with you, in terms of intelligence, curiosity about large conspiracy theories, and the Hello Kitty style. Does it matter to you if there's another who is "like you"? Would it offend you? Have you ever talked to somebody with similar hobbies/tastes, or are you more comfortable being the only one in the room? | 
08-22-2006, 02:44 AM
|  | Occam's chainsaw | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: goin down in a blaze of glory
Posts: 7,072
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by bunny gamer I think it's fine and a very positive thing if any feminist chooses to take on prison reform in order to help stop the rapes of men and, ultimately, the women they form relationships with when they leave prison. | I hope you don't ever take anything I say the wrong way- I enjoy debate but some people don't and/or take it personally, so I hope you're not one of those. That being said, let me play devil's advocate and ask why feminists should have to take on prison reform instead of prison reformists taking on the issues of feminism? I realize that prison reform is your cause and I am 100% behind you on this; I think it's a very important issue and I think social change on the whole probably requires people singly dedicated to one cause at a time. But I can't help but feel that old defensiveness rising within- that women and feminists are put second or must carry a given burden but men and their causes don't have to sacrifice anything. I realize that these issues (and many others) are heavily intertwined, but far more men are in prison than women, so in the most stripped down sense, it is largely a men's issue. (And yes, I know that women are being incarcerated at far higher rates now, etc.) Again, don't misunderstand me here, I have friends who work with abc if that means anything to you (and if not, let me at least state that I'm not talking about the network tv station) and full time for non-profit organizations on issues of indigent defense, etc., so I'm probably more aware of many of the issues surrounding prisons than the average US citizen is. (Not to mention having people I know go there.  ) Quote: |
Originally Posted by bunny gamer I have no fundamental problem with feminism--it's a movement I think is positive but would like to adjust. I was using this opportunity to highlight one of its usual failures in focus. | meh. If there was a successful model for a social/civil rights movement, I'd like to know what it is. Everyone does the best they can, hopefully knowing that what seemed like a good idea at the time may not actually work in the end. I think constructive criticism is always useful but I can't help but notice that the prison system situation in our country isn't improving at all, so I wonder why it is you think that your social movement is more effective than feminism, either parts of it or taken on the whole? You didn't really say that the prison reform movement was more effective, but that's what I think you're getting at by citing a lack of focus in feminism. Remember, I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here, I'm not the most devoted feminist. I might not even be a good one, and it isn't the main issue/cause in my life. Quote: |
Originally Posted by bunny gamer It's easy to get people to say rape is wrong. It's not easy to get them to agree to proactive solutions, such as prison reform. I think when these issues come up it's important to argue for improvements in both the way we view them and what should be done. That's all I was really doing. | Yes, and I'm glad you are willing to enter this debate. I know I sound harsh sometimes on the internetz but I promise I don't take/mean any of it personally. Contrary to what I have seen a couple of people say on here lately, I don't come to this forum because we all agree on everything and I like the reassurance.  I actually learn from several of the people here and think about my beliefs. I have been to both ends of the "internet political spectrum" and I actually prefer it here, where there is a wide range of political beliefs and backgrounds. However, there are a couple of idiots here that have nothing to teach or learn, and they should get lost. Not naming names of course. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci So I dunno, with an intersex person, how often does the fact that they are intersex even come up? | Probably not often, and that's one of the reasons I brought up my friend. She's pretty open about it but it still doesn't come up much in conversation. So one can only imagine how many more are out there and silent, which was part of the old town's point in an earlier post. | 
08-22-2006, 03:52 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | so long as they realise kitty likes me more and im the princess  | 
08-22-2006, 04:50 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by herekitty Well I can't speak for what it's like to be an intersex person because I'm not one, but I think discussing sexual orientation and things like that are sort of a natural part of being close friends (if these things aren't already obvious). You may be friends with someone at uni and not know them very well but eventually I think the issue of your sexual preference will come up since relationships play a big part in people's lives (even if it's the absence of them). In her case, I think the she feels that this is something that is important to her identity. (and therefore it is). She doesn't want to hide it, much like some homosexuals get tired of hiding that or skirting the issue. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by herekitty Probably not often, and that's one of the reasons I brought up my friend. She's pretty open about it but it still doesn't come up much in conversation. So one can only imagine how many more are out there and silent, which was part of the old town's point in an earlier post. | I'm just not sure whether I'd consider that silence an infringement on their equality. Surely feeling obligated to declare one's sexuality is just as bad as feeling unable to.
Then again: Quote: |
Originally Posted by herekitty  She didn't reveal her genitals to me. I guess I've taken her word for it, much like people will take your word that you're gay even if you don't have gay sex with them. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by herekitty And I don't think I could detect anything out of the ordinary if she did show them to me because she herself didn't know until she didn't get a period well past when she should have and went to see a doctor about it. It's not like all intersex people have a penis, you know? Her differences are internal. | I strongly suspect that if I don't "prove" my sexuality to people, a lot of them probably don't believe me. I'm not overtly homosexual in the way that a lot of people are, and feel no need to indicate that I'm gay unless someone has the balls to ask. I don't think this has anything to do with shame, conscious or otherwise, just a desire for it not to be the extent of my identity.
I guess the same could be said of your friend; quite separately from whether you think people will accept you for it, there's a desire not to be indentified with something you don't feel you can control, to remain the author of one's own indentity. In other words, perhaps s/he doesn't feel s/he should have to be indentified with hir intersexuality, but knows s/he would be. I don't necessarily feel wronged if someone thinks of me as "Gay Steve", but I'd still prefer it if they knew me for something I'd achieved.
I hope that makes sense, and I'm probably completely wrong about your friend's feelings, but hey, that's my mama!
Incidentally, re: yr rep, there's a picture of me in a thread called "Oh cunting fuckbeans", in The Spa. | 
08-22-2006, 04:59 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | hahahaha gay steve  | 
08-22-2006, 05:09 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by fagarielina hahahaha gay steve  |
For a short period I was "other gay steve". Those were great times to be alive. | 
08-22-2006, 05:37 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | | im a crust punk! | 
08-22-2006, 06:02 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Katgrrl Bravo Fried Butter!
I'm displeased with how many people hate feminism now when if it weren't for feminism, women would not be in universities, women would not be entitled to even thier own patents and if they were married, their ideas would be passed off as their husbands, women would not be voting, women would not be CEO's (yes women do make good CEO's I know one that does a great job and the company thinks she does too), all things regarding feminine reproductive health would be in the hands of men that don't care about personal female health because they can't empathise.
There would be no female doctors, no female scientists, no female rock stars that wrote their own music (how odd, it seems like that is the path record labels are going down post feminism...guess trying to bring back pre feminism era?) and females would not drive, be discouraged in general. Who knows if feminism never took place if the U.S would have adapted to female infantcide considering our population would be increased due to women being treated like baby making machines and females would have no relevance in making money for society which society benefits from the most.
There are places that show tale tale signs of what the world would be like without feminism and that would be the middle east and China.
Men don't understand nor have the capacity to as it seems to even get half of the frustrations that women from all around the world recieve even to this very day. The worst degrees of anti-feminism lies in the middle east and asia. In the western world we face our own challenges but I still feel fortunate compared to how other women are treated.
Men you might like this idea because you'd have no worries and threats at all plus less competition in society with jobs but if the shoe were on the other foot. When I hear men complaining about feminism, they are scared of losing complete control to women and distort the truth to feed on their fear revolving around their control freak egos that just want complete power and control over what they view as the weaker sex as though they are entitled to such all over the past and the present.
Women aren't a sisterhood. Even women jump on the bash feminism bandwagon but I guarantee you that they would thank their lucky stars if they were being butchered by a husband that falsely accused her of cheating on him, if she were about to die to restore a family's name after her brothers had raped her or if a stranger on the street had raped her. That is what the world would be like without feminism and we should be grateful.
Here in the western world, women have proven the unthinkable. Men from the past believed women could not handle mathematics, could not handle science, were completely dumb and if they weren't then they were considered freaks and instead of handing credit to the smart female, the credit should go to the male scientist because surely that female did not just come up with nuclear fission!
Now females may have encounters with the same misogynists but it's not half as bad as it used to be and we have women who took a stand in a time when it wasn't considered appropriate in society to thank.
P.S Anyone who thinks wearing makeup makes you less of a feminist (I doubt anyone on this board subscribes to that) Cleopatra, a female invented makeup and makeup was often wore to symbolize some sort of freedom in earlier feminist stands.
When men hate women, what are their reasons? Now compare it to a woman's reasons. |
Just to respond to some of this (assume that if I haven't responded to other points it's because I broadly agree with them), I think you're being rather unfair on the male sex. I mean, sure, you're saying that, because they're not women, they don't identify with the plight of women as well as women do. To clarify: do you expect that they should? Do you see it as a flaw that they don't? I think it's unfair to suggest that because someone doesn't directly identify with a particular cause they don't care about it and through their inaction support injustice.
I also feel that you need to be aware of a distinction between "bashing" feminism and being critical of it. It's one thing to say that feminism was a load of shit, but I don't think anyone was actually doing that. True, WW was using rather inflammatory language, but there was an actual point behind it. Whether you agree or not, it's dangerous to dismiss any criticism as "bashing" what was achieved. True, we should honour what is achieved. But we should not (in my opinion) edify anything beyond reproach. Maybe there were absolutely no failings in the way that feminism has progressed society. How can we know this if we don't view it critically? There's no advantage to not knowing what we could have done better.
Also, a few minor things:
I don't know who invented nuclear fission. Was it a woman? If not, I'd point you in the direction of Marie Curie and the wife of Voltaire (whose name I've forgotten but is probably lookuppable). Women have been involved in and accredited with scientific achievement for a lot longer than is convenient.
Is make-up really still a feminist issue? Do people really still feel obliged to wear it, or obliged not to wear it? I'd mention that I'm about the only man I know who doesn't use moisturiser, so maybe it's less about gender and more just about vanity these days.
You can blame religion for a lot of the Middle Eastern mistreatment of women. I think a lot of the reason people don't campaign on it is that they're really not sure how to feel about fucking with someone else's rel | |