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08-15-2006, 10:20 AM
|  | Occam's chainsaw | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: goin down in a blaze of glory
Posts: 7,072
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by slutlipstick It was a joke. Did you see what I said after that? | Yes, sorry. Given the beliefs of some of the people around here I could see someone taking this argument (that its a disability) and using it to defend the president because they would think its so hilarious that it started out as a "liberal" policy and then is used to defend the biggest pseudo-conservative fuck-up that ever lived. |
08-15-2006, 10:31 AM
|  | pull me out of the lake | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: soho
Posts: 13,303
| | | does luftwaffe being too lazy to read or think make him mentally disabled?
__________________
you'll go to hell for what your dirty mind is thinking |
08-15-2006, 10:53 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | | Pretend to be gay; that's a disability, and a relatively easy one to fake. |
08-15-2006, 11:07 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | | oh kutz0r. |
08-15-2006, 11:11 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth Damn right. Or you could make it easy and simply not treat anyone differently. | um... access to free healthcare according to need alone is the basis of our health service. that's the DEFAULT position, as much as government may like to nudge otherwise. Quote:
Consider this.
I smoke – I drink – I also pay my taxes and particularly smoking contributes considerably more wealth to our health service than it costs to repair people who smoke (£9bn v’s £2bn) so I would expect to not be treated any differently.
In fact I would expect to be treated absolutely like anyone else if smoking made me disabled.
Now in America – you smoke – you pay tax on your cigs like we do. You also pay income tax (high ones too in some states) and not only that you have to pay for your own heath care outside of your considerable tax contributions too – and they still don’t want to repair you – and now they don’t even want you disabled.
Fault or no fault – the success of any 'sucessful' society could be judged in allowing any individual living in it’s society to at least be disabled. No one is more disabled than someone else and no one is more deserving of disability than someone else.
You’re talking shite Luftwaffe and I’m not entirely sure I blame you – given the society America now lives in.
 | taking responsibility for one's own health should also be a default position - regardless of the amount of tax one pays. tax is not investment. it's a tithe to a baseline standard of living.  |
08-15-2006, 11:22 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 329
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the old town um... access to free healthcare according to need alone is the basis of our health service. that's the DEFAULT position, as much as government may like to nudge otherwise.. | I take it you’re referring to the Uk health system? Quote: |
Originally Posted by the old town taking responsibility for one's own health should also be a default position - regardless of the amount of tax one pays. tax is not investment. it's a tithe to a baseline standard of living. | Taking responsibility of your own health is already the responsibility of everyone. Just because you smoke doesn’t automatically mean you will die, just as crossing a busy road doesn’t automatically mean you will get hit by a car.
Now if you argue that people should be denied health care because they smoke\ ed – then you have to argue how the health system is funded and how it’s able to fund ‘free’ health care to ‘everyone’ in the first place. The irony of the UK’s health system is that large quantities of funding for it can be attributed to taxes raised on cigs and alcohol – and disproportionately more funds are generated than taken. |
08-15-2006, 11:25 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth I take it you’re referring to the Uk health system? | yes, yours and mine, hence 'our'. Quote:
Taking responsibility of your own health is already the responsibility of everyone. Just because you smoke doesn’t automatically mean you will die, just as crossing a busy road doesn’t automatically mean you will get hit by a car.
Now if you argue that people should be denied health care because they smoke\ ed – then you have to argue how the health system is funded and how it’s able to fund ‘free’ health care to ‘everyone’ in the first place. The irony of the UK’s health system is that large quantities of funding for it can be attributed to taxes raised on cigs and alcohol – and disproportionately more funds are generated than taken.
| yes, i got it, though to niggle a bit, you haven't accounted for the other stuff our taxes are spent on. i just think it's a silly argument when we already have a perfectly functional principle: need alone should determine access to health care. |
08-15-2006, 11:28 AM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth Taking responsibility of your own health is already the responsibility of everyone. Just because you smoke doesn’t automatically mean you will die, just as crossing a busy road doesn’t automatically mean you will get hit by a car. | Incorrect. All liberals constantly throw themselves under cars. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth Now if you argue that people should be denied health care because they smoke\ ed – then you have to argue how the health system is funded and how it’s able to fund ‘free’ health care to ‘everyone’ in the first place. The irony of the UK’s health system is that large quantities of funding for it can be attributed to taxes raised on cigs and alcohol – and disproportionately more funds are generated than taken. | You can argue it that way, but you could also argue that it's ridiculous to assess what treatment someone has based on a drug addiction, just as it would be ridiculous to base it on whether someone fell down the stairs while they were drunk or sober. |
08-15-2006, 11:30 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 329
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the old town …yes, i got it, though to niggle a bit, you haven't accounted for the other stuff our taxes are spent on… | I also haven’t accounted for all the other stuff that we’re taxed on either!
Lol… maybe we should ask where it all goes. |
08-15-2006, 11:37 AM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 329
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci ...You can argue it that way, but you could also argue that it's ridiculous to assess what treatment someone has based on a drug addiction, just as it would be ridiculous to base it on whether someone fell down the stairs while they were drunk or sober. | Er.... yes that's correct.  |
08-15-2006, 11:39 AM
| | oh, truly disappointed. | | Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 176
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth I also haven’t accounted for all the other stuff that we’re taxed on either!
Lol… maybe we should ask where it all goes. | huh? I thought your point was that taxes on cigarettes make considerable contributions to the NHS - and I pointed out that they may make contributions to stuff that's detrimental to health, too.
anyway, this is dumb. |
08-15-2006, 11:44 AM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | | Yall; Retarded
1!! |
08-15-2006, 06:20 PM
|  | give me the sickest one. | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: fox in the snow
Posts: 7,940
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by luftwaffe This is truly fucking asinine.....And of course, my employer gives prospective employees a drug test before they are hired. So then, if I piss in a cup and it turns out I test positive for some drug, I won’t be hired. But if I test positive for some drug, and it turns out I am a “recovering addict”, then all of a sudden I am disabled, and I cannot be turned down for employment based on this factor. That’s completely non-sensical. | maybe you dont know how to read?
if you test positive for something you are no longer a "recovering" drug addict, you are a drug addict and wouold be treated the same as anyone else who tested positive.
__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats |
08-15-2006, 06:21 PM
| | give me the sickest one. | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: fox in the snow
Posts: 7,940
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by discolexy does luftwaffe being too lazy to read or think make him mentally disabled? |
i believe so. i think he would qualify for untimed testing should he ever want to go to college.
__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats |
08-15-2006, 06:24 PM
| | give me the sickest one. | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: fox in the snow
Posts: 7,940
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci Personally, I think employers giving their prospective employees piss-tests is pretty fucking assinine as well.
| anyone who is required to use motor or cognitive skills and could endanger the lives of others if impaired should be tested.
drug testing a mcdonalds worker is asinine.
__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats |
08-15-2006, 06:39 PM
| | How did I get these? | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: On a trailer park
Posts: 182
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by dirtyplotte i believe so. i think he would qualify for untimed testing should he ever want to go to college. | Hmmm, the lack of 'special' considerations may have been why he failed the first time round. |
08-15-2006, 06:51 PM
| | give me the sickest one. | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: fox in the snow
Posts: 7,940
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Skind Hmmm, the lack of 'special' considerations may have been why he failed the first time round. | hence his anger at special considerations in general? poor thing.
__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats |
08-15-2006, 08:22 PM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: uli, JU
Posts: 299
| | | wait... he's not pretending to have asperger's? aw, bless. |
08-16-2006, 04:03 AM
|  | I'm Designer | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,768
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by luftwaffe So, I had to take this test at my job, about sexual harrassment and employment policy regarding people with disabilities.....
Well……I learned that the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 is full of shit. It lists “having a past record of impairment” as one type of disability, and it lists “a prior drug or alcohol addiction” as a disability.
Well…… that’s complete and utter bullshit. Thanks liberal legislators, for this golden pearl of wisdom. The term disabled means “not able” to perform some type of function. What are past drug and or/alcohol addicts not able to do, that the rest of the populus can do?
NOTHING.
This is truly fucking asinine.....And of course, my employer gives prospective employees a drug test before they are hired. So then, if I piss in a cup and it turns out I test positive for some drug, I won’t be hired. But if I test positive for some drug, and it turns out I am a “recovering addict”, then all of a sudden I am disabled, and I cannot be turned down for employment based on this factor. That’s completely non-sensical. | I'm shocked, but I agree with you.
At one point or another, a (recovering) addict CHOOSE to use drugs/drink/whatever, and I NEVER CHOOSE to be in a wheel chair.
I never asked for my illness, and never made the concious choice to get it, it was in my DNA.
I'm not saying I should be treated differently because of it, but if they do treat people with disabilities differently, they should ONLY treat people with REAL disabilities differently, not (recovering) addicts, they are not disabled.
Another example: here in Holland there's a special program in 3 major cities that wants to stimulate (recovering) addicts to keep taking their methadone.
They decided to give each person that vows to take their methadone and don't do drugs €52 ($66) each week on top of their wellfare check.
I'm on wellfare because I'm disabled, but don't qualify for disability money.
I don't get €52 each week, eventhough I don't NEED methadone and don't do drugs.
How is that fair?
Why does someone that at one point CHOOSE to be unhealthy and fuck up their lives so bad that they need wellfare get a bonus for being normal?
Why don't I get a bonus because my life is fucked up because of something that I have no controle over?
There's plenty of stories of single moms who live on wellfare with their 4 kids, they are forced to work shitty jobs that are below minimum wage because our goverment doesn't want to pay them wellfare.
Their kids won't have a mom at home, no matter how young they are, and the little extra money that the mothers make will get swallowed up by daycare for the kids, which leaves them with less money than they had to begin with.
These people need to rely on foodbanks for food, the salvation army for clothes etc. but let's give some fucking addict a bonus of €208 each month!
Luckily we'll get to vote on November 22nd, because this goverment is seriously fucked up. |
08-16-2006, 04:34 AM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hoppingdeth Er.... yes that's correct. |
'Salright, I was agreeing with you. I just think that's it's imp | |
