well, at least israel drops leaflets letting civs know that they're going to be bombing in the area.

then you got the other side strapping bombs to their children and sending em in to kill civs.

hrm.

I dunno one just looks more sinister.

/shrug

oh shut the fuck UP. no one will report with the same kind of psychoanalytical VICIOUSNESS on the U.S. soldier who is now alleged to have raped and set on fire his 14 year old Iraqi prisoner.

nor will you accept that man's actions--rape and murder of an innocent--as representation of you and your country. but you will accept it of theirs, because bigotry against their culture has served this war very well.

as if a suicide bomber speaks for an entire nation's worth of displaced people. disgusting. what speaks for them is their desire for the settlement-building and occupation to end. read a fucking book.

However, when a US soldier gets accused of doing something like rape & murder, he gets arrested and faces a possible death sentence if found guilty. When one of your Palestinians blows himself up in a crowded bus or restaurant, he's hailed as a martyr or as a freedom fighter by the Palestinains and their leftists supporters.

Maybe you ought to read different books.

You're kidding, right?

Oh yeah, U.S. soldiers totally all get busted for their criminal activities! The proportion of war crimes committed by the U.S. is totally well-policed by it's absolutely uncorrupt system, and the amount of ongoing U.S. and Israeli war crimes that continues to this day is totally curtailed by the higher powers. You know, constantly. And Abu Ghraib was, like, totally the exception!! There was only one of those and we stopped it! And because we have systems in place that purport to be about human rights, but don't enforce them at all, if we are forced by international scandal to indict someone once every 20 years, that will do in place of actual morality! WOO-HOO!

I'm sorry, you are a fucktard. There is nothing to admire about suicide bombers, whatsoever, but the U.S. and Israel are in the positions of power and have to end the slaughter and brutality. It is they who have to answer for human rights violations on a GLOBAL SCALE (you know that one? the one that's larger than the scope of a suicide bomber's actions?)--

which, not incidentally, was the point of this thread in the first place.

veg, I don't know where you lost your way in learning about this issue, but you're the only one on your side who can even string a coherent sentence together, and at that even you are failing. I've seen you be intelligent and pragmatic on other issues, but with this one you're just a lazy, glib asshole. You don't mention anything factual in any of your posts, just PR spin. you don't mention solutions, just laugh at the violations.

this is pretty much how the average american feels about your vegetarianism issues. and I think it's sad that you've sunken to their level.

Pardon my bluntness, but what's your problem? There was no reason to be rude ... I agree that human rights would BE a better reason, so I agree with you on that... and I don't believe I ever said Israel would never bomb "us", nor would I suggest it, because it's clear that Israel is in it for themselves, and just willing to use whatever resources are offered to them.

Nor do I believe all Jews are Zionists. That notion is absurd. But many of the founders of Israel were -- *bing* -- Zionists, thankyouverymuch. Again, I agree with much of what you wrote. (I think it's truly bizarre when people get all hostile when they don't need to, to get their point across. It's just so ... unnnecessary!)

So, how do YOU suggest punishing someone who has blown himself up? By killing his whole family?

There's nothing wrong with a soldier who badly misbehaves to get a punished (though I'm personally against capital punishment, even for soldiers!)

I called what you said absurd. It's really not all that hostile.

Thanks! Those are pretty!

Vegyrex is tricking you into asking the wrong question.

He wants you to not ask if those bombings are in retaliation to something. The assumption is that suicide bombing is wrong above everything else you could do. That it's this magical proof of insanity on the part of the Arab world.

It's not. It's just another fact of war that's occurring. It deserves no more attention than any other massacre committed by an armed human.

Again, this is all a philosophical smokescreen. Let me give an example. Which is more insane:

1) a suicide bombing

2) the U.S. not signing the International Treaty to Ban Land Mines



The status quo is delighted if you answer #1, because it solves nothing and keeps them in power.

On another note, guerilla warfare and suicide bombing work, which is why it continues. How else would one fight a highly established army that does whatever it wants, and makes its own rules which it expects everyone to abide?

Yes, suicide bombings are about retaliation. 9/11 was about retaliation for supporting Israel and the US occupation of Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War. Not many Americans are really clued into this (believe it or not, middle America thinks "they hate us because we are free", rather than to just get the fuck out of their business), and in some ways, Osama wholly failed by assuming that Americans are as educated as the British. Most of the British populace gets it; we still don't). Little does he know that we're a country currently dominated by yahoos (which will only get worse as spending continues on the military rather than education) and there could be 1000 suicide bombings here and we'd remain as dumb as ever.

I'm reading an extremely fascinating book on the subject: "A Pretext to War" by James Bamford which is really adept at putting everything together, including why US intelligence failed to divert 9/11. It is extremely easy to read.

agree 100%.