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the Church never makes sense...they are hypocrites hence me not being a Christian.
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"Calling Your Name I Hear Only Echoes Searching The Rain I See Only Shadows You've Got To Show Me Your Face... Voices I Hear Them Calling Behind Me Phantoms Of You Are Burning Inside Me You've Got To Give Me A Sign...." (Running Blind, t.A.T.u.)
this was about the split in the anglican communion, what you americans call the episcopal church (for some reason calling yourselves anglicans didn't sit comfortable after the war of independence). anglican clergy don't have to be celibate.
aren't the episcopalians/anglicans on the protestant side of the split anyway? w/e. it's all devil worship anyway.
& i love how all these religions had some kind of molestation drama within the past couple years [], yet the catholic church or catholic orders are the ones that end up getting heralded that way. the church itself wasn't the problem, rather it was these sick men [] who were using the church as a guise to do this all under.
but if we're going to play the "lol the church rapes little boiz" card i'd much prefer the godhatesfags vrsn tbh.
the Church never makes sense...they are hypocrites hence me not being a Christian.
You just need to argue them into a position where they either have to agree with you or confess to holding the kind of opinion that the Church would then want to distance itself from. I don't believe The Bible says anything much against homosexuality if anything, but the religion's establishment seems to side with and stick up for its members, even the ones who'll unashamedly say that homosexuality is the single most pressing concern of the Christian faith in the modern age (not, you know, poverty, man's inhumanity to man, nothing like that), rather than those who agree with the basic morality of the faith but happen not to be paid-up members.
& i love how all these religions had some kind of molestation drama within the past couple years [], yet the catholic church or catholic orders are the ones that end up getting heralded that way. the church itself wasn't the problem, rather it was these sick men [] who were using the church as a guise to do this all under.
but if we're going to play the "lol the church rapes little boiz" card i'd much prefer the godhatesfags vrsn tbh.
The Catholic Church is like the McDonalds of religion. People who hate Catholicism go after it, and people who hate all religion go after it because it's a soft target. It's probably no worse and more reformed than most equivalent religions, too.
I don't believe The Bible says anything much against homosexuality if anything,
The Old Testament specifically calls it forbidden (Possibly an abomination? Although I’m not sure of the exact quote). I think that various secular scholars and even some religious non-literalists attribute this to the precariousness of the survival of the Jews as a people, the need to re-populate. The New Testament says nothing about it, and does say that many of the old rules no longer apply following the coming of Jesus as the savior, which is why, for example, Christians don’t have the same dietary restrictions as Jews (that one is spelled out: “It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of it,” homosexuality is simply not mentioned) One of the handy ways to point out hypocrisy among homophobic Christians is to list some of the billion and one other things specifically forbidden by the Old Testament and ask why the church doesn’t speak out against those things.
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The Old Testament specifically calls it forbidden (Possibly an abomination? Although I’m not sure of the exact quote).
Something like "a man shall not lie with a man as he lies with a woman; that is detestable". It's in Leviticus. Leviticus is considered retarded even by Catholics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwoman
I think that various secular scholars and even some religious non-literalists attribute this to the precariousness of the survival of the Jews as a people, the need to re-populate.
Others point it at pagan rituals. I'm more inclined to think that it is about homosexuality, but that, since it's one line in a massive-ass book, it's hardly worth having a schism about and certainly shouldn't be the all-consuming obsession that it is to some Christians, given all the rapes and murders and genocides that are mentioned far more often in far more specific terms but which do not constantly prey on such people's minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwoman
The New Testament says nothing about it, and does say that many of the old rules no longer apply following the coming of Jesus as the savior, which is why, for example, Christians don’t have the same dietary restrictions as Jews (that one is spelled out: “It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of it,” homosexuality is simply not mentioned)
So oral is okay now? While that's good to know, it does kind of undermine one of my favour pro-sodomy arguments - that most people who think homosexuality is a sin will have performed oral at some point in their lives, probably on a fairly regular basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildwoman
One of the handy ways to point out hypocrisy among homophobic Christians is to list some of the billion and one other things specifically forbidden by the Old Testament and ask why the church doesn’t speak out against those things.
Again, back to Leviticus, which also forbids wearing garments cut from two different cloths or something stupid like that. We're either supposed to accept that God would get in touch with this guy and tell him to write that gayness and nylon-cotton mixes are the two most heinous crimes against His good name that a man can commit, or we just quietly ignore Leviticus for being a fricking loony.
"Do not be deceived: neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God" [Corinthians I 6:9-10]
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet." [Romans 1:26-27]
"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" [Timothy I 1:10]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWoman
and does say that many of the old rules no longer apply following the coming of Jesus as the savior
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." [Jude 1:7]
Well, ok, I’m busted as having forgotten a great deal of the bible. Are any of those are direct quotes attributed to Jesus? I accept that I was wrong, but I think I may have confused it with Jesus not specifically saying anything.
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but the Old Testament /the Tanakh scriptures (namely Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Judges, & Kings) are far more explicit & farfetched than the New Testament scriptures. all this sodomites & whores talk is from the torah & the nevi'im, not the gospels or the epistles. which makes these westboro bitches & god-sent baptists look even more dumber for manically lifting quotes from it on the daily. its just another example of shitty christians picking what they want to believe.
in any case, though it doesn't flat-out say to stone the gays if they want to get married, it's a pretty clear that they're not pro gay marriage for a specific set of reasons.
well christianity is meant to be a religion around the teachings of Christ and Christ said nothing against gays and preached Love Thy Neighbour... so love me
__________________
"Calling Your Name I Hear Only Echoes Searching The Rain I See Only Shadows You've Got To Show Me Your Face... Voices I Hear Them Calling Behind Me Phantoms Of You Are Burning Inside Me You've Got To Give Me A Sign...." (Running Blind, t.A.T.u.)
"Do not be deceived: neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God" [Corinthians I 6:9-10]
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet." [Romans 1:26-27]
"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" [Timothy I 1:10]
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." [Jude 1:7]
did jesus himself actually ever say anything about same-sex relations?
Nope he didnt... "Here Jesus refers to "eunuchs who have been so from birth." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a "born eunuch" is a gift from God. "Would Jesus Discriminate? - Jesus said some are born gay
__________________
"Calling Your Name I Hear Only Echoes Searching The Rain I See Only Shadows You've Got To Show Me Your Face... Voices I Hear Them Calling Behind Me Phantoms Of You Are Burning Inside Me You've Got To Give Me A Sign...." (Running Blind, t.A.T.u.)
did jesus himself actually ever say anything about same-sex relations?
well ben, though i am friends with Jesus on myspace, he hasn't logged on in over two yrs, so this question's answer might have to wait a little bit.
but on his behalf, i'm pretty sure it sez somewhere that he hung out with the fags smtimes. he hung out with the poor, the prostitutes (prozzies [lol]), the lame, the deaf, the blind, the demonic, & the dead. so if he didn't hang out with them then it really speaks mountains on where the gays & their little marriage issuez stand on the scheme of things.
Who cares what some imaginary character from a book did! He may very well have been real, but it doesn't mean he was the son of God. And why would God be so offended by people who love and care for each other, and just so happen to stick their dick in someone else's ass as their form of sex? Does anyone else think God would be offended? I doubt it. I think only straight men would!
Last edited by CrackneyLove : 07-17-2008 at 08:46 PM.
], yet the catholic church or catholic orders are the ones that end up getting heralded that way. the church itself wasn't the problem, rather it was these sick men [
