marriage & the consummation of it is considered a sacrament in christianity. or at least most christianity.

contraceptives & birth control are considered fornication though. so it's still a no, kesh.

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hollywood would be jealous.

I hadn't read this and that's why I hadn't argued you on this. I do think it's rather a big deal. There are many cases in this country where a pharmacist or people working at the pharmaceutical counter have not filled prescriptions for birth control or Plan B because of religious beliefs. Is that right? Is that not a big deal? Now, sure, there are other people out there in the country that would fulfill prescriptions, however, many of us (myself included when I lived in MA) live in rural areas where there are one or two options. Also, given our healthcare system certain places accept certain health insurance plans.

I do not believe it is right to pass judgement on people when you are on the clock, especially if that means that you are discriminating against them---based on their sexuality or because they're simply having sex. If you are so uncomfortable with your job, then you have to resign and move on. Now, that is harsh because that woman's job has high wages, from what I can gather. Then again, those wages are paid by your government, are they not? They are your tax dollars. She is a civil servant and her duty is to marry those who are consenting and can marry under the law. That is her ONLY job and responsibility.

Now, if her coworkers ridiculed her, including her boss, yes that was wrong. That is harrassment. However, if this situation was handled a different way...explaining what her job description is, for example, then perhaps this could have been avoided. Perhaps they could have transferred her to another area where her religious beliefs would not get in the way of her job.

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"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

And user Diablo had already made all those points.

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"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

Marriage in the church is considered a sacrament. Kesh is right, by her beliefs, she's been sending straight people home to sin with a stamp of approval by the government for years.

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I guess that we defo are lucky to live in England... but when things like this do come up... we come a lil unglued at time

i wasn't really reading it in that way. but in that manipulated, melodramatic context, yeah, maybe by her beliefs that's what she's doing. but the oppressive guilt of marrying a straight couple, where there's still reasonable doubt that they might be a "faithful" couple, is far less severe than marrying a gay couple, when certain facets of her religion have a boldfaced NO to that one. especially when this is still a heated debate all around the world. it's not like she denied marrying an interracial couple -- why is everyone so shocked this happened?

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hollywood would be jealous.

Her only real defence is that the terms of her employment were changed, when the gay marriage legislation was brought in. It wasn't what she signed up for.

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she's a haunted house and her windows are broken

Yeah, that is true. And also, I would say that it was definitely wrong of her coworkers to bully her or make her feel harassed. Not that I feel I would be above that harassment, it's just that it's unprofessional in the first place.

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"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

Why is one kind of discrimination worst that another? And why should we sit here and throw up our hands chanting back and forth "oh this world is fucked up, let's just give up"? It is our duty to condemn the practices of those who are discriminating others. Unless we want to continue to perpetuate that kind of behavior. We need to make it unacceptable. Period.

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"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

When was anyone shocked? Not in this thread that I noticed. I don't remember anything about being faithful nullfying the rule against sex outside of marriage either.

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i'm not really advocating one discrimination over the other, or being nihilistic about it. nobody knows if this woman was indeed a raving homophobic lunatic who just didn't want to marry this couple for the shit of it. all we know is that she wasn't going to be a part of something that her religion condemns. i'm sure it was nothing personal against the couple themself, rather the problem was with her herself being the ringmaster of what she deemed sinful. which i honestly don't think is such a terrible thing & anybody, religious or non-religious, should be able to accept that.

& yet ____________.

& even though she's works as a public servant there's still certain boundaries people have to have. i mean, i know they have duties to the government & the people, but when it comes down to it, they're still people. like i said, legally that was wrong of her. the only thing i'm glad about is that these courts actually looked into the case & made judgment on an individual assessment instead of going by the usual cliché legal bar that the american judicial system seems to go by. if anything, it was optimism.

the only thing nihilistic about the whole thing is the lolz factor of people discriminating against what they think is discrimination by saying discrimination is a bad, bad thing.

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hollywood would be jealous.

well user WildWoman, obvs some people are little peeved, distressed, & (here it comes) shocked about the said subject if it's generated this much unnecessary controversy. perhaps you haven't noticed because you're too preoccupied with turning other peoples words around & futilely trying to make a point in doing so.

in everything i've said i've never said anything about straight marriages being more faithful than gay marriages, or any statistical comparison of the sort. i just said that a gay marriage is a much more bitter pill to swallow than a straight marriage is from a religious point of view (i.e., this woman).

if you really find that to be such a brainbuster then maybe you should back up & not speak on behalf of people you don't understand as if you do. that'd be pretty great, imho.

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hollywood would be jealous.

What, by using the standard definations and not the ones you're making up? Mad and surprised aren't the same thing, and I didn't notice anyone sounding particularly surprised.

Admittedly, maybe that's not what you meant. It's just that I assumed you actually meant something vaguely related to the subject, and that you had grasped the fact that this woman wasn't performing a religious ritutal of any kind in the course of her job.

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well since we're on the subject of not being on the subject;

Main Entry: shock
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: To affect with a strong feeling of moral aversion. Synonyms: scandalize

now, i may not be as merriam-savvy as the internet is, but i would daresay there are a number of people in this here thread acting quite "morally averred", yourself included. but i mean, if you want to argue with the dictionary, that's cool too. you might even win that one.

but to get on some real talk, i don't see why you tried to bring up the whole ~civil~not~religious~ritual talk & then tried to back it up with a quote of mine that has -- literally -- nothing to do with what you're trying to say i said (<3 btw). obviously i wasn't talking about her job. i was speaking on behalf of her point of view, something you're completely disregarding. i already said that, yeah, it was her job & she went against her duty to the public, but in justifiable means. nobody's occupation should force them to do something that interferes with their ~lifestyles~, whatever they may be. its just when the lifestyle involves religion people usually disregard it. you know. coz they're so above it & the such.

so with real talk aside, i now actually sympathize with this woman. mostly because i too am used to being surrounded by a bunch of whiney faggots who didn't get their way & complain about it to other people. the only difference is i have to deal with it on the internet & she has to deal with it in the courtroom. so more power to bbgirl<33

This is something I cannot argue on further: she has a job to do, she has to do it. And as Wildwoman pointed out, this isn't some sort of religious ceremony, it's a court and it's a law. Her religion has no place in the workplace and if her work was infringing upon her religion then she should have asked to be moved somewhere else. These are the laws, they are not going to be bent over and over again because one person or another doesn't 'believe' in them. Don't you also think that this is also her way of being subversive? Of propelling her cause against gay marriage. What she has done (or refused to do) implies bigger problems when it comes to gay rights.

People definitely have the right to be upset about that. And people should expect that their civil servants are serving the public in the public's best interest.

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"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

so why does everyone keep bringing that whole NOT A RELIGIOUS CEREMONY thing up when everybody already knoez. four times now guys. let's tone it down a little.

the bottom line is that civil servants that serve the public are still part of the public themselves. they're not the higher power, & they're not "the help". their beliefs & best interests should be as respected as much as ours should be. point blank.

i tried to get this point across before in my ranty replies up there, but why should anybody's beliefs be necessarily respected? only in the domain of religion do people try to shut down debate point-blank by demanding no discussion on them. if i said i believed the world was flat and you challenged me on it, i wouldn't say "GET OFF MY HUMAN RIGHTS DISCRIMINATION BULLY ", i'd explain why i thought the world was flat.

further, these beliefs should not be respected, if they come at the expense of people. someone choosing to believe in something < someone's involuntary sexuality.