Choice?

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

baby making huh?

Well I guess you can ask an expert like Britney, Britney's Mom and/or Jaime Lynn Spears (Britney's little sister)...

i don't understand the question.

the baby is cute, like a toy. in the picture! when it pukes on itself, i guess the maternal instinct kicks in (hopefully), and makes you not mind.

Should a person have a choice whether or not to make a baby? Or should society set standards and laws in this regard?

Ex. "Should the Glouchester 17 be ridiculed, condemned and shunned for making a pact to make and jointly raise babies?"

Should a person have a choice? Including the father?

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

They should definitely be ridiculed, mianly because it's retarded thing to do. I'm not even getting into the responsibility debate.

__________________

Is this thread a sequel to that other thread that starts with "Let's Get Specific About"? Or perhaps a prequel?

I don't really understand what choice is being speculated about here.

The (potential) father should definitely be consulted if a girl/woman plans to conceive a baby, and vice-versa if and when it's possible for a man to do that without the woman's knowledge. There should be a law, IMO, although I guess it'd be hard to prove if there were accidents.

WRT the 'pact', there's no question that it was irresponsible and selfish, but they're young; and there's all the other stuff about teenage girls romanticising pregnancy, especially if they have little else in the way of a career to look forward to/or low self-esteem. Either way those pregnancies are there now and the girls shouldn't be condemned, etc. now. Whatever authorities are responsible over there should make it clear to other girls that having a baby is a serious decision and an 18+ year commitment. Hopefully the girls be able to make the best of it, and will be supported and the babies (I assume at least some, if not all of them will actually have their babies) will have as good a start as possible.

Is this about the possibility of forced birth control/adoption/abortion for teenagers? I don't think the latter would ever happen, but in the UK, about 10 years ago (I was quite young so I can't remember in detail); someone in the conservative party was condemned for saying that teenage mothers should be forced to give their babies up. I think the assumption in this country that teenage mother automatically = bad mother is sad. But on the other hand I think the government assumes that all young girls are avoiding pregnancy and therefore all they need to do is teach them how; rather than also reminding them why they would want to wait.

we should ridicule, condemn and shun people that can't spell gloucester

__________________
they made soup out of my research turtles.

It depends how teenage. I have a problem with girls who get pregnant and decide they're going to keep it and are convinced that they'll be a great mother, and then palm it off onto the mother/grandmother as soon as they get bored. I know that doesn't necessarily constitute everyone, but at the same time, I know that there's a lot who don't quite go that far but still have a similar attitude/end result.

I don't like this idea that even suggesting adoption/abortion/keeping her fucking legs shut maybe is seen as oppressive, because sometimes it really is the best thing for the child, the mother and society in general. I don't think anyone should be forced but advising someone shouldn't be seen as evil either.

But to be honest, I'm not sure what Sophia is driving at, or rather, I'm pretty sure but I do at least want him to say it.

As par for the course, I am simply wanting to get you to respond. You make your own points and don't assume or speculate that I have an agenda.

In my family of 3 brothers, all 7 children were conceived by their wives while supposedly on birth control. These are the secrets we may never really know, as men. I do know that my sister-in-law had a child whenever she decided she wanted one; the husband was never consulted. She just kept him in the dark. Now, since he is a great father and grandfather I would assume he would not vehemently object. I do think men should be part of this kind of major decision.

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

Oh but I doooooo, Dairy Queen, I do, I do!

Ah, yes, the old standard:

Doctor: "How long have you been trying for a baby?"
Husband: "Well, we haven't really been tryi-"
Wife: "Six months."
Husband: "What?!"

Nice that you imply there's some dark secret at work, rather than (I'm guessing) the guy assuming that "it's the woman's job to take care of that sort of thing". It's good that your bros didn't get all butthurt when their spouses decided to just do whatever they wanted if he's not prepared to take an interest. Most unwitting daddies don't.

I thought this thread was about laws regarding teenage pregnancy. Now Sophia_ seems to be implying that there is some sort of female conspiracy at work! The only time I have ever had a pregnancy scare, my boyfriend knew about it before I did! There has never been any secrecy involved in my life wrt birth control. It's totally wrong to try for a baby without the other parents' knowledge, but it isn't some sort of protocols of the sisterhood situation. I am the result of male deception. Much as it makes me a bit sick knowing that :|, I am just a bit glad I'm alive.

My mum was 18. My upbringing wasn't ideal by any means and I've always been aware that I wasn't planned, but my mum tried her best. I didn't spend a lot of time at my grandmothers, possibly even less than my boyfriend seems to have and he comes from a 2-married-parents family. There have been plenty of problems for both of us, but I don't think they were down to her age; but admit it was likely due to my biological father being scummy/my mum being single - which could happen at any age, even if it starts as a 2 parent family.

Some conservative figurehead said that middle-class girls don't get pregnant as much because 'ambition is the best contraceptive', and I agree, tbh. Girls need to be taught that they have more to offer society than their wombs, BEFORE this happens. When it does, I don't think it's oppressive to give advice, but I find it worrying if young pregnant girls are automatically told that they don't want the baby just because they're young. And I wonder if that's partly why some teenage mothers might not be so good at it (and yeah, the aggressive DON'T YOU DARE STAND UP OVER THERE STAND HERE I TOLD YOU SO DON'T TALK HOW DARE YOU SMILE tyrants that tempt me into being an interfering so and so are invariably young). Maybe because they've been told since puberty began that unplanned children always have second-rate upbringings and are the worst thing that could happen to a young person. I think in any situation, ideal or not, the children or potential children come first. My problem with the pact isn't that they deviated from the ideal, but that they obviously didn't put the potential children first, aside from the deception issue. But if/when they become actual children, they need to come first, not any condemnation/whatever of the mothers, who will need support.

The loony lefty in me thinks the nuclear family should be dissolved and children should run wild and abundant in multi-parent communes, free love blablabla. But the admittedly conservative, I-didn't-have-an-ideal-childhood-so-I'll-overcompensate-with-my-own-children-by-doing-the-opposite-of-everything, side plans not to have children until I'm married and can afford a massive house. Both of my ideal parenting plans are really realistic and sensible, I think.

In some cases it may be the woman who stopped taking birth control and didn't discuss the potential results with the man. In other situations it may be that the odds catch up. Then there is the woman who has an abortion but doesn't include the father in the decision-making process.

In many ways having sex is like going to the mall: if your self-control is mature enough not to bring money or a credit card it may all be more about enjoying the titillation and the wonder of being in the moment, and less about actually sticking the plastic into the atm.

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

You sick fuck.

fucked

prolly impotent fuck. his plastic got wobbly

__________________
they made soup out of my research turtles.

ewwzers