'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

♥♪!? · #1 05-12-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

For Abdel-Qader Ali there is only one regret: that he did not kill his daughter at birth. 'If I had realised then what she would become, I would have killed her the instant her mother delivered her,' he said with no trace of remorse.

Two weeks after The Observer revealed the shocking story of Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, murdered because of her infatuation with a British solider in Basra, southern Iraq, her father is defiant. Sitting in the front garden of his well-kept home in the city's Al-Fursi district, he remains a free man, despite having stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed his student daughter to death.

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

Rand, who was studying English at Basra University, was deemed to have brought shame on her family after becoming infatuated with a British soldier, 22, known only as Paul.

She died a virgin, according to her closest friend Zeinab. Indeed, her 'relationship' with Paul, which began when she worked as a volunteer helping displaced families and he was distributing water, appears to have consisted of snatched conversations over less than four months. But the young, impressionable Rand fell in love with him, confiding her feelings and daydreams to Zeinab, 19.

It was her first youthful infatuation and it would be her last. She died on 16 March after her father discovered she had been seen in public talking to Paul, considered to be the enemy, the invader and a Christian. Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in. Her shrouded corpse was then tossed into a makeshift grave without ceremony as her uncles spat on it in disgust.

'Death was the least she deserved,' said Abdel-Qader. 'I don't regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,' he said.

Sitting on a chair by his front door and surrounded by the gerberas and white daisies he had planted in the family garden, Abel-Qader attempted to justify his actions.

'I don't have a daughter now, and I prefer to say that I never had one. That girl humiliated me in front of my family and friends. Speaking with a foreign solider, she lost what is the most precious thing for any woman. 'People from western countries might be shocked, but our girls are not like their daughters that can sleep with any man they want and sometimes even get pregnant without marrying. Our girls should respect their religion, their family and their bodies.

'I have only two boys from now on. That girl was a mistake in my life. I know God is blessing me for what I did,' he said, his voice swelling with pride. 'My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours.'

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.' It's a statement that, if true, provides an insight into how vast the gulf remains between cultures in Iraq and between the Basra police the British army that trains them.

Sources have indicated that Abdel-Qader, who works in the health department, has been asked to leave because of the bad publicity, yet he will continue to draw a salary.

And it has been alleged by one senior unnamed official in the Basra governorate that he has received financial support by a local politician to enable him to 'disappear' to Jordan for a few weeks, 'until the story has been forgotten' - the usual practice in the 30-plus cases of 'honour' killings that have been registered since January alone.

Such treatment seems common in Basra, where militias have partial control, especially in the districts on the outskirts where Abdel-Qader lives.

While government security forces and British troops have control over the centre, around the fringes militants can still be seen everywhere on the streets or at the checkpoints they have erected. And they have imposed strict laws of behaviour for all the local people, including what clothing should be worn and what religious practices should be observed. There are reports of men having their hands cut off for looting and women being killed for prostitution.

Homosexuality is punishable by death, a sentence Abdel-Qader approves of with a passion. 'I have alerted my two sons. They will have the same end [as Rand] if they become contaminated with any gay relationship. These crimes deserve death - death in the name of God,' he said.

He said his daughter's 'bad genes were passed on from her mother'. Rand's mother, 41, remains in hiding after divorcing her husband in the immediate aftermath of the killing, living in fear of retribution from his family. She also still bears the scars of the severe beating he inflicted on her, breaking her arm in the process, when she told him she was going. 'They cannot accept me leaving him. When I first left I went to a cousin's home, but every day they were delivering notes to my door saying I was a prostitute and deserved the same death as Rand,' she said.

'She was killed by animals. Every night when go to bed I remember the face of Rand calling for help while her father and brothers ended her life,' she said, tears streaming down her face.

She was nervous, clearly terrified of being found, and her eyes constantly turned towards the window as she spoke. 'Rand told me about the soldier, but she swore it was just a friendship.

'She said she spoke with him because she was the only English speaker. I raised her in a religious manner and she never went out alone until she joined the university and then later when she was doing aid work.

'Even now, I cannot believe my ex-husband was able to kill our daughter. He wasn't a bad person. During our 24 years of marriage, he was never aggressive. But on that day, he was a different person.'

The mother is now trying to raise enough money to escape abroad. 'I miss my two boys,' she said. 'But they have sent a message saying that I am wrong for defending Rand and that I should go back home and live like a blessed Muslim woman,' said Leila, who is now volunteering with a local organisation campaigning for better protection for women in Basra.

One of those running the organisation, who did not want to be identified, said that Rand's case was similar to so many reported in Basra, with the only difference being she was in love with a foreigner, rather than an Iraqi.

'There isn't too much to say. Rand is dead. It is a tragedy and will be a tragedy for many other families in Iraq in the days to come.

'According to information we have been given, some from Rand's colleague, we have doubts that her love was reciprocated. We have the impression that Rand was in love, but the English soldier wasn't. But, for a girl to be paid nice compliments about her beauty and her intelligence, it was enough for her to think she was in love.

'She isn't here any more for her mother to ask any of the questions she would like to. Rand's case had repercussions because she fell in love with a foreigner. But what about the other girls murdered through "honour" killings because they fell in love with some of a different sect, or lost their virginity, or were forced to become prostitutes?'

Rand's mother used to call her 'Rose'. 'That was my nickname for her because when she was born she was so beautiful,' she said.

'Now, my lovely Rose is in her grave. But, God will make her father pay, either in this world ... or in the world after.'

Taken from some other forum.

Amity · #2 05-12-2008, 09:14 PM

That's pretty horrific. So called "honour killings" have occured in recent years here in the UK and the family who carry them out get imprisonment, not congratulations. It's disgusting.

CrackneyLove · #3 05-12-2008, 10:32 PM

That is HORRIFIC! It doesn't suprise me though, the disgusting pieces of shit. But isn't the Muslim religion only around two hundred years old? Christianity, according to other texts and history, did things just as bad as this, but yet they make Muslims out to be the devil?

i_eat_ether · #4 05-12-2008, 10:35 PM

The only thing shocking about this story is that her male relatives didn't gangbang her before killing her.

i_eat_ether · #5 05-12-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrackneyLove

But isn't the Muslim religion only around two hundred years old?

Yeah, it doesn't have the illustrious history of a more ancient religion like Scientology, for example.

bort · #6 05-13-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_eat_ether

Yeah, it doesn't have the illustrious history of a more ancient religion like Scientology, for example.

And I think it's all the poorer for it...

Insomnia · #7 05-13-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrackneyLove

But isn't the Muslim religion only around two hundred years old?

It was founded in 622 AD, so its more like 1,400 years old...

debaser · #8 05-13-2008, 09:04 AM

so sad that in today this still happens.

Solly Coleslaw · #9 05-13-2008, 09:20 AM

Freddy Mercury belonged to a very ancient religion and he was allowed to bumsex men and do drugs.

BleedingHeart · #10 05-13-2008, 09:33 AM

Some day.............

Black Mambo · #11 05-13-2008, 10:13 AM

Hm. This is awful.

Having said that, I knew before I even opened this thread that the thread title was going to piss me off (sorry symbols person) b/c it's pretty obvious that the father would never have said that. She wasn't killed for falling in love so much as breaking the rules of her religion by spending time alone with the man. It reminds me of that other thread, with the story of the girl who got "x lashes for getting gang raped", when in fact the lashes were for spending time alone with one of the guys (who then led her to her gang rape ordeal). The title isn't quite as misleading here, but still. I hate that whole sensationalist thing.

Anyway, I condemn it somewhat, but at the same time I'm not there and I'm not living in that culture with that religion. How can I understand? It's easy to be shocked when we all live in fairly lax societies that let us do most anything, while others live under rules that we don't have with punishments we mostly don't agree with.

I'd say something like "I hope they find freedom from such harsh rules" but that'd probably be highly insulting so I won't. I'm just extremely glad I live in a place where I have freedoms I can enjoy.

Whoever called them "disgusting pieces of shit" (and then went on to erroneously claim Islam is only a couple of hundred years old?!!) needs to GTFO.

sssh · #12 05-13-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrackneyLove

That is HORRIFIC! It doesn't suprise me though, the disgusting pieces of shit. But isn't the Muslim religion only around two hundred years old? Christianity, according to other texts and history, did things just as bad as this, but yet they make Muslims out to be the devil?

Sorry to do this but HAHA at your historical inaccuracy. 'The Muslim religion', otherwise known as 'Islam', is one of the younger of the world religions but still more than 200 years old. I think maybe it's something more like 1400 years old. Your post is actually really incoherent. You seem to hate Islam, then have sympathy?

Yeah I think it's completely insane, but I hate how the title of the piece (it's off the Guardian website, appeared a few days ago) is just calculated to stir up self-righteous liberal indignation. This is another culture we're talking about - falling in love wasn't the reason for her murder, it was going against doctrine. I recognise the irony of criticising liberal rage on the basis of another aspect of liberal ideology (relativism) but surely people see that this is the way some cultures work. This doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't try and change such attitudes, but we're not going to achieve an approximation of success by any standard through ossifying ideas of superiority and difference.

Edit: Insomnia's already got you on that one. So have other people.

CrackneyLove · #13 05-13-2008, 01:43 PM

I feel like an idiot now. I read somewhere, or misunderstood something that said that the muslim religion really was only two hundered years old. And when I said "them" I meant the people who talking about their daughter being dead, and calling her a mistake etc. It just really bugged me.

cyanideeyes · #14 05-13-2008, 01:55 PM

total fucked up

TheEmpress · #15 05-13-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingHeart

Some day.............

let's hope so.

sundaydress · #16 05-13-2008, 02:17 PM

thats fucking terrible. not surprising. but still really sad

Insomnia · #17 05-13-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Mambo

Anyway, I condemn it somewhat, but at the same time I'm not there and I'm not living in that culture with that religion. How can I understand? It's easy to be shocked when we all live in fairly lax societies that let us do most anything, while others live under rules that we don't have with punishments we mostly don't agree with.

I'd say something like "I hope they find freedom from such harsh rules" but that'd probably be highly insulting so I won't. I'm just extremely glad I live in a place where I have freedoms I can enjoy.

The reason it is shocking is not that society metes out these punishments, it is that FAMILIES do. It is against pretty much every single biologically programmed urge out there to kill your kids/siblings, infact most animals will do pretty much anything in their powers to help their kin survive (kin selection is a massively powerful force in nature). So the idea of killing your child/sibling over something like this is incomprehensible, even taking out of the equation the fact that people are supposed to love their children passionately (or so most parents say). The idea that a religion can make you do something that is so fundamentally against MILLIONS of years of evolution is strange.

Governments/societies do heinous things all the time because its not their biological imperative to help all their citizens survive. But families doing it is what is gross. I am sorry, I am a pretty damn liberal person, and I am well versed in relativism and all the rest of the anthropological take on interpretting the world, but still...

ThePrude · #18 05-13-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomnia

The reason it is shocking is not that society metes out these punishments, it is that FAMILIES do. It is against pretty much every single biologically programmed urge out there to kill your kids/siblings, infact most animals will do pretty much anything in their powers to help their kin survive (kin selection is a massively powerful force in nature). So the