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  #41  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by spasmachine View Post
When this first broke I some how read it as 'Australia' and kept doing so, I'm glad I had the radio on this morning so I didn't make an idiot of myself talking about it out loud.
Couldn't be Australian, our incest participants are willing
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  #42  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:15 AM
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This is blatantly just another Shannon Matthews thing. They're just faking it so the press'll buy their story.[/conspiratard]
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  #43  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by larsen View Post
apparently the kids were no older than one years of age when they showed up on the doorstep.
What is bizarre is that the guy had a conviction for raping a woman in the 1960s, so its odd that not only the police didn't get suspicious at her disappearance, but also that they then let a sex offender adopt three children...
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  #44  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:07 AM
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has it come out why he kept the other kids in the cellar? were they there for his abuse too?
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  #45  
Old 04-30-2008, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jellybella View Post
has it come out why he kept the other kids in the cellar? were they there for his abuse too?
My guess is that they weren't as healthy as the other kids (cause of the incest, you know?) or maybe vice versa? I don't really have any clue though.
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  #46  
Old 04-30-2008, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EMMAh View Post
(I also read that she looks way older than she really is?)
I don't know if this is true, as it was in a particularly sensationalist tabloid, but apparently yeah, she does. I understand that lack of food will age your skin and that a lack of sun must also be bad, but apparently her hair is white and her skin is nearly albino-pale. One of the details that has bothered me most is actually that they've all found it hard to adjust to light, as their eyes aren't adjusting properly yet...

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Originally Posted by Champers View Post
My knowledge of psych is scant, but is this one of those examples of what I think is called "Stockholm Syndrome", where people who are held hostage for long enough begin to empathise with their captors?

I imagine the kids who were born and raised in that environment had selected knowledge fed to them via their (it does make me want to throw up in my mouth a little to use the word in this context) mother and grandfather so they were pretty much cocooned, to an extent.

I'm curious, even though the girl was drugged and everything, how the father managed to completely fracture her mind, her free will, and get her to completely submit. What I find even more difficult to comprehend is how the note was attached to her daughter when she was taken for medical help --does anyone know if the note actually SAID anything about the ghastliness in the cellar??
I don't know about the note, but I don't think we can call this Stockholm Syndrome until we know a bit more from Elisabeth. i think she probably didn't ever show a negative reaction to her father so as not to disturb her children who were there with her. I discussed this with my boyfriend last night and I was talking about how much counselling the kids would need after seeing/hearing their mother being raped, and he pointed out to me that the rape was probably never contextualised for the children - Elisabeth, by the time she'd had several children, would probably have stopped fighting him, and just submitted. So maybe the kids didn't realise thgat that was going on, or how wrong it was. I imagine she probably didn't fight or talk badly of him, but only to protect her children.

God, it's so sad - she must love them so much, even though they're his...

I think Natasha Kampusch's case is definitely Stockholm Syndrome.
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  #47  
Old 04-30-2008, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ella luciana View Post
I don't know if this is true, as it was in a particularly sensationalist tabloid, but apparently yeah, she does. I understand that lack of food will age your skin and that a lack of sun must also be bad, but apparently her hair is white and her skin is nearly albino-pale. One of the details that has bothered me most is actually that they've all found it hard to adjust to light, as their eyes aren't adjusting properly yet...
I read that in the Ottawa Citizen, I dunno where they got it from though.
Personally, I always find it way too fucking bright outside. So I couldn't imagine having never seeing the light of day and then going outdoors. That would probably fucking kill.
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  #48  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by EMMAh View Post
My guess is that they weren't as healthy as the other kids (cause of the incest, you know?) or maybe vice versa? I don't really have any clue though.
One child who is in a coma has a never before heard of illness, tied to incest.
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  #49  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:13 AM
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If anyone comes across specific information on that, could you post here ?
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  #50  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:24 AM
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There's information on someone knowing what was going on, probably an older son, and questions about the mother.
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  #51  
Old 05-01-2008, 04:59 AM
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Some papers are saying that the five year old could walk but preferred to crawl and that the children were making growling noises like animals. Don't know how true any of that is though.....
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  #52  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:58 AM
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Incest dad 'threatened to gas secret family'

AMSTETTEN, Austria (CNN) -- Police probing the case of a man who held his daughter captive underground for 24 years are investigating whether he set up a mechanism to gas the inhabitants of the cellar dungeon where he kept a secret family imprisoned.

Federal Bureau of Investigations spokesman Helmut Greiner said Josef Fritzl, 73, had made the claim during initial police questioning, The Associated Press reported.

Police say Fritzl confessed to keeping his daughter Elisabeth in his basement for 24 years, repeatedly raping her and fathering her seven children -- six of whom survived, three living underground with their mother.

Fritzl is alleged to have threatened to gas his prisoners if they harmed him or tried to escape, AP says.

Meanwhile, Fritzl's sister-in-law revealed further details Thursday about the secret double life of the man whose exploits have stunned Austria. In an interview with the Oesterreich newspaper, she said Fritzl had often spent entire days and nights in the cellar.

"Every day at nine in the morning Joseph would go into the cellar. He said he was drawing engineering plans that he would sell to companies," the woman -- identified as Christine R, the sister of Fritzl's wife -- said.

"Often he would stay there all night" and his wife was not even allowed to bring him coffee, she added.

Austrian authorities said the imprisoned children, who for years had not seen the light of day, were slowly adapting to sunlight. Officials also debunked reports in a few British newspapers that some of the children could not walk or speak in sentences.

The story of the family's imprisonment began to unravel a week ago, when Elisabeth Fritzl's oldest daughter, Kerstin Fritzl, fell seriously ill with convulsions and was hospitalized.

The 19-year-old girl, who was locked in the basement along with her mother and two brothers, remains in an artificially-induced coma in an Amstetten clinic. She is suffering from a kidney ailment that worsened because she did not receive medial treatment sooner, authorities said.

"We cannot expect any dramatic changes in her condition in next few days," Dr. Albert Reiter said. "We will make every effort to help as best as we can, perhaps in a few weeks we hope some positive change for the better."

Fritzl had told his wife that Elisabeth, who is now 42, ran away from home aged 18, police say. The Fritzls adopted three of the children who Josef said were left on his doorstep as infants by his runaway daughter. Fritzl has confessed to incinerating the body of the infant that did not survive, according to police

Fritzl has yet to be charged, but he can be held by police for 14 days without formal charges while the investigation is under way. That amount of time can be extended by a judge.

A spokesman for the prosecution, Gerhard Sedlacek, said Fritzl had stopped talking to police since making his initial confession. Investigators intend to begin questioning him again next week, Sedlacek said.

Austrian police spokesman Franz Polzer said the investigation would likely last a couple of months. Police plan to interview at least 100 people who lived in the same apartment building as the Fritzls over the past 24 years.

"Investigation officials will go back as far as they can in order to discover what his behavior and actions were at that time ... but it is not very easy to reconstruct 24 years," Polzer said.

Polzer also said police were investigating suggestions that Fritzl may have been making plans to release his daughter. Investigator discovered a letter by Elisabeth, apparently written on Fritzl's instruction, in which she said she wanted to return home but "it's not possible yet," AP reported.

"He may have had plans to end the captivity at some point," Polzer said. "It just shows how perfectly he planned everything. It shows that he must have had a spark of humanity."

Authorities are also looking into media reports that Fritzl may have had a prior rape conviction in the 1960s, but have no information because criminal records are expunged after a certain number of years under Austrian law.

However, Austrian police spokesman Franz Polzer denied reports that authorities were looking into Fritzl's ties to the unsolved murder of a young woman more than 20 years ago.

During the time Fritzl owned a hotel and restaurant at a lake in Austria, a woman was found murdered at the other end of that lake, Polzer said.

Police are aware of the media reports and may investigate possible links in the future, but at this time, Polzer said, there is no investigation.

The investigation will also examine whether any accomplices were involved in the case after police revealed they had received an anonymous tip-off that Fritzl had imprisoned his daughter. But Polzer said there were "neither technical nor biological traces of any other person in cellar" other than Fritzl.

On Sunday, Elisabeth and her two sons, ages 18 and 5, met the three children who were raised by Josef and Rosemarie Fritzl, unaware that their mother and siblings were kept prisoners in the basement.

"It is astonishing how easy it worked, that the children came together and also it was astonishing how easy it happened that the grandmother and the mother came together," clinic director Berthold Kepplinger told reporters Tuesday.

Authorities are looking into the possibility of giving new identities to the Fritzl family. District Governor Hans Heinz Lenze said Tuesday that the Fritzl name had been "muddied" by the case.

On Wednesday, a German tabloid released video of Fritzl, laughing on a Thai beach and receiving a massage -- apparently as his daughter and three of their children remained locked up in his basement.

The newspaper Bild posted the video on its Web site, and said it was taken and provided to the newspaper by Fritzl's friend, a retiree from

Timeline
1977: Elisabeth Fritzl claims she was first abused by her father Josef when aged 11

1984: Elisabeth is allegedly lured into house cellar, drugged and handcuffed by her father. She is forced to write letters saying she has run away.

1988: Her first child, Kerstin, is born.

1989: Elisabeth gives birth to her first son, Stefan.

1993: Nine-month-old Lisa is left on the doorstep of the Fritzl house.

1994: Another child, Monika, arrives and is adopted by the Fritzls.

1996: Elisabeth gives birth to twins, but one dies after three days. Josef allegedly burned the body.

1997: Alexander, the surviving twin, joins the children upstairs.

2003: A letter from Elisabeth arrives saying she had a second son, Felix, the previous year. He is raised in the cellar.

2008:

April 19: Kerstin is taken to that hospital after falling serious ill. Doctors discover that her grandfather is her father.

April 20-27: Josef releases Elisabeth, Stefan and Felix and tells his wife they are returning.

April 26: Police pick up Josef and Elisabeth near the hospital where Kerstin is being treated.

April 27: Josef admits his guilt after Elisabeth's statement.

April 28: Police search house and discover cramped cellar with special security door.

April 29: Josef appears in court.

Incest dad 'threatened to gas secret family' - CNN.com
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  #53  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Honey Bee View Post
April 19: Kerstin is taken to that hospital after falling serious ill. Doctors discover that her grandfather is her father.

April 20-27: Josef releases Elisabeth, Stefan and Felix and tells his wife they are returning.

April 26: Police pick up Josef and Elisabeth near the hospital where Kerstin is being treated.

April 27: Josef admits his guilt after Elisabeth's statement.

April 28: Police search house and discover cramped cellar with special security door.

April 29: Josef appears in court.

Incest dad 'threatened to gas secret family' - CNN.com
Oh my. I didn't realise this is what happened. I'm REALLY confused now. I was under the impression the eldest daughter had been taken to hospital with this note from Elisabeth hidden on her, and the police had somehow stormed the basement and rescued them...

How did it actually happen? This timeline doesn't give enough information for me.
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  #54  
Old 05-02-2008, 09:43 AM
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YouTube - Crimeblog: Josef Fritzl, il mostro di Amstetten in vacanza
YouTube - Josef Fritzl video Thailand 2


An ordinary looking man, though, that ordinary ?
Do you think he has something predatory ? (or is that reading into ?). Blurry though.
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  #55  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:33 AM
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YouTube - Fritzl was 'strange landlord'
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:58 PM
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For the life of me I can't remember which paper I read it in, but Kate and Gerry McCann just HAD to muscle in, marking the 1st anniversary of Madelaine's disappearance by saying that Elisabeth being found alive gives them new hope for finding Madelaine.I wish I had the quote but it was in the context of "If Elisabeth could be found after all this time...." Madelaine may be alive but really, would her parents WANT her to be alive in the clutches of another potential Josef Fritzl As desperate as they are to have her safe and sound, the McCanns really didn't need to ride the coattails of those poor wretched children to push their agenda that LITTLE bit further. It was a brief but very "strategically" placed comment for the world's media to hear, and under the circumstances, I thought it was in very poor taste.
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Last edited by Champers : 05-04-2008 at 07:36 PM. Reason: typo
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:17 AM
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