Aye basically.

It's interesting to see the different "justifications" against immigration in the US. Bar the very specific attitudes towards muslims we have here, our gripes (I say "our", they're not mine personally, I mean those of some people in britain in general) with immigrants stem from economic concerns ("they're bleeding dry our benefits system") or a sense of unfairness ("they're taking our jobs") rather than from public safety concerns. But we're a bunch of moaning bastards anyway, and nobody apart from the "lunatic fringe" ever takes such a stance on immigration publicly.

I read a lot of the BBC "have your say" forum, and reading the rather un-PC views of people who wouldn't dare say that **** out loud is a massive guilty pleasure of mine. My mother is one of those people who will rant in private about the filthy immigrants but knows that she has to keep schtum in public. And she is a really reasonable and moderate person on other subjects. (I love arguing with her. After about half an hour of arguing with her one time, I managed beautifully to back her into such a corner that she was forced, for the sake of consistency and to her slight embarrassment, to admit that she doesn't believe my boyfriend should be allowed to work or study here. Possibly my best ever logical triumph. )

I love my mother really. I think she just read The Sun (right wing-ish tabloid) for too long. Despite, of her own accord and for what now seems like no apparent reason, having since switched to The Mirror (same kind of tabloid, but more left wing) she still has these notions in her head. That she reads tabloids at all is a total disappointment to me, but whaddyado?

Well, that anyone reads them is a disappointment really. And apologies for all the personal chat here, some of which is sort of irrelevant, but I'm building up to a point.

I agree with wildwoman here. You get the nutters who will bang on about all these supposed justifications for tightening or stopping immigration, and while most moderate people will naturally feel they're overstepping the line broadly, it doesn't mean that specific parts of their message are actually being ignored. My mother is testament to that fact. Even she doesn't like the BNP.

What I'm not sure about is whether people like her will see reason as a result of stories like this. There was a pretty good piece in her usual paper, The Mirror, some years ago that actually gave statistics showing just how few immigrants come here, compared to how many people here thought were coming, and just how few of those immigrants claim state benefits, again compared to what people here thought. I quoted this back at her during one of our debates, and she flat-out wasn't having it.

I studied a little bit of sociology on the media and it is thought that people, when taking in information through the media, often take it in in different ways depending on their existing beliefs (there was a study to this effect, I think in the 80s, the person who did it was called Morley). And if they don't take it the wrong way, they might even just flat out selectively ignore it in favour of stuff that reinforces their beliefs.

Anyway I'll stop banging on now.

Don't apologise for yourself, you have your right to say what you want.
tangents are fine, other readers can just skip on.......

Oh yes on Britain BlackMambo, some people forget that the E.U. pays host countries to take in refugee immigrants too (though i don't know how much). So its not "all coming out of the country's pocket." and British pop. increase is less than where I am, a much smaller country (1% rise per annum over the last few years, soley due to immigrants)

My mother's an immigrant, I'm a spouse of an immigrant (who's co-workers are majorly all immigrants too)......I've seen the system here (and the people), alot of it makes me mad as hell...but that's a long story.

Generally, illegal aliens are deported rather than tried for crimes they commit. You aren't going to see them in our prisons as often. Also they commit crimes against those that won't report them. Other aliens and immigrants or those with ties to foreign governments. It isn't likely they would report those crimes to California authorities anyway. Also, I have my own theories about the dead bodies that are found all over the california/ mexican desert, and it's not that it's just too hot.

en ami's thing is right. blacks are hugely over-represented in the prison population, so every demographic that is less black than the population of california is going to be skewed downward by that fact

i just wish latino gangs would stop listening to morrissey and do some thuggishness to even things up

There ain't no cops in the desert!