Obama wins another three states. This is getting so depressing. If he get's in on this bullshit CHANGE message and does nothing to help the economy (recession anyone?), nothing (of substance) on Universal Health Care, nothing to deal with the 'problems' of lobbying and the culture of Washington (which I think he will succumb to because he is easily swayed and not staunchly for or against issues, not to mention the economy being in a shambles) and doesn't keep to his promises in Iraq (which I have moral issues with anyway) I hope he gets kicked out after four years.

??

i wonder where you are getting this. because its hillary who has vacillated on issues, not obama. look at their records.

__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats

As always, with everything, I agree and disagree with everyone about the Chelsea Clinton thing. That article (the one about the little girl) was a hatchet job, straight up. Big Bad Clintons Abuse Cute Little Girl. It’s meant to make you go away with the impression that she cruelly crushed the hopes and dreams of a budding Lois Lane, when in fact, the kid is now saying she doesn’t want to be a reporter anymore because now she’s seen from the inside how the press can twist incidents completely around while still technically not lying.

However, at 28, if Chelsea's campaigning, then she ought to answer questions. She’s old enough to have chosen not to be involved, and if she really feels like she can’t choose to not be involved, she’s old enough to get some therapy to help her say ‘no’ to her parents. However, we also need to be looking in the mirror as a country here – it is generally assumed that if the adult child of a presidential candidate is not involved in the campaign, it must be because they hate that parent, probably had a traumatic childhood, and if they really told people what their parent was like, no one would vote for them. Rarely does it seem to occur to people that most young adults have lives completely separate from their parents’ careers. I didn’t like the way they used her as a prop as a child, especially when it was obvious that it was to show off a happy family in the face of talk about Bill’s extra-marital activities (but I didn’t think that should have been made public either). But again, this is what we as a country demand – we want a royal family equivalent, we want children as props, a shining all-American family to bear our standard. I hold the Clintons responsible for their actions in this regard, but I have to hold us responsible too.

__________________
We are sorry, the mind you have reached is not a working mind.
Please hang up and die again.
Please hang up,
And die again.

Because you asked me to.

And I disagree with your reasons. You've stated Hillary is a person who will not listen to others. That simply isn't true. Her senate record and her relationships with other senators says it isn't true. If you want to dislike her for vote on the Iraq war that would be legitimate. Many people dislike her for that vote. I wish she hadn't voted for it but outside of that blemish I think she's been a good senator.

I didn't misread or misconstrue a thing.

If I didn't think she'd be a great president I would not support her.

Its very unlikely Obama, or even Hillary, will be able to clean up the mess George W. Bush will leave behind in just four years. If Obama does become president don't expect any major changes until his second term in office. Provided he seeks a second term.

just on that, Tony Blair of course was for it too. Between home and abroad what is up with the left these days?

The Quaker from hell on the right is Don Black's son apparently ... but ah, OMG what a double-standard! ... It's a double-standard. Hillary supporters are trying to squelch all criticism of her... Will it work? Nope.

Anyway, I don't mind talking about this, I consider the debate fun. No he's not thanking him for a donation. He's not planning the next Blitzkreg either. Or where the next gas chamber show go. He doesn't even know who it is! I mean, look at the guy, he looks like a executive at Dell. It was a set up. Pose with Ron Paul, then put it up on the site.

He poses with anyone that asks ... maybe he's naive that way, being so approachable.

He's keeping the money he says so he can use it for good. Returning it means it will be put to bad use ... Which I think is quite logical. Giving it back would be fake ... so he could look suitably outraged ...

What the hell is this??? Veggy's pitbull? You weren't even in the discussion. That's not right. Apologize, and leave.

From articles, some of which posted here, and usually trying to suggest it as a positive that he listens to one idea, listens to another, listens to a few more then considers these views and tries to find some middle ground. This and his belief in trying to bring together the two parties, which I just can't see happening. In my opinion. Conviction is worth something, being willing to say something and stick to it is worth something. It get's shit done. Unlike all the airy talk of hope and change which could amount to very little.

Yes Wildwoman, I agree ... they made some kind of agreement... Chelsea wanted no part of it, but for image purposes she said, ok, you can use me for a smiling prop, that's all. I don't speak.

Where it becomes ridiculous is she is then in public, and being used to get votes, and then when somebody talks about her in the press, the Clintons have their job and practically close down the networks ... And that's cuz they think they are beyond criticism.

The article was rough ... I choose it cuz it mentioned the incident ... perhaps I shoulda picked one that was less rough.

is this thread the entirety of your political knowledge?

just because someone is polite and is willing to make concessions doesnt mean he flip flops which hillary is famous for.

__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats

Why are you making this personal by trying to undermine me? Can we not rise above that? Especially as I specified SOME articles were posted here AKA some of them were from Obama supporters not just critical pro Hillary sites.

It's nothing to to with politeness, it's to do with not having the qualities of leadership and being too interested in appeasing everyone to get anything done.

No, what I asked is that you answer the question because I was curious about your response. But you went on to attack and talk about dollpartz's opinion about Ron Paul or what have you, which wasn't really revelvant to that question.

That isn't my only reason. Considering most will agree that Obama and Clinton differ very little on the issues, it comes down to their personality, what you think they will be capable of accomplishing, and if you believe they will keep their word. We obviously differ on our opinion of these things.


Yes you did actually. You have misread my posts several times and accused me of saying things I haven't said or read something into my posts that wasn't there. I understand you want to support Hillary and all, but I don't think I've done the same thing to others in defense of Obama.

I know you do, and I respect that. I just disagree with you.

__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

Agreed.

And WW, great post per usual!

__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

So, a career politician (you have referred repeatedly to his years of experience, while also claiming he was a complete outsider to the system, which is annoying, but not the double standard I'm pointing out right now) is naive enough to pose with anyone who asks, and yet we're supposed to trust him with the entire country? I doubt he's really that naive, actually, but that was your defense - that he doesn't understand how politics work and will happily be publically associated with anyone who smiles at him. Also, he's allowed to accept money from anyone, because he'll 'do good things' with it - why do I somehow think this is not an excuse you would accept from any other candidate?

__________________
We are sorry, the mind you have reached is not a working mind.
Please hang up and die again.
Please hang up,
And die again.

I think you're post after this one reveal a real double standard.

No way he doesn't know who it is. Considering the people that are his most ardent supporters and his past views which were revealed in those newsletters he published back in the 80's and 90's. No way that fool didn't know what was published in them. Those newsletters had his name on it and were published by him.

During this campaign both Obama and Clinton have returned money, or given money to charity that was shown to have come from shady people. Not Ronnie. He refuses to give that money back. His argument of it being used for good in his campaign doesn't wash. He's keeping that money because deep down he still has the same views as Don Black. I bet if we took a peek-a-boo at his personal library at his home we'd find copies of the Turner Diaries, & The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

But with only 14 delegates your guy doesn't stand a chance of becoming are most racist president since Woodrow Wilson.

What's this? Trying to silence Hillary supporters?