Kittyradio Forums
Go Back   Kittyradio Forums > real world > news & politics


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #626  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:56 AM
ava__adore's Avatar
Used to be an E-bow
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 989
ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute ava__adore has a reputation beyond repute
See I don't understand your position. On the one hand you reject any identity politics and seem to feel that voting for a woman or african american for that reason is unjustifiable in the same way as voting against one for this reason. And yet you seem happy to pay yourself on the back that America has narrowed down to these two 'minorities' (in POLITICAL terms). In addition you seem overjoyed that Obama who so rallies against 'the political system' the way it is handles in America get's huge amount of funding and establishment support.

The recent conversion of high profile African American supporters from Clinton to Obama is not only (in my opinion) political profiteering ('he's winning now, let's back him'), but also based in part on him being African American and them wanting to see an Afircan American (sure as a sign of overcoming historical and existing injustices) in such a high position. If so, I don't see how you can argue Obama's race is not an issue.

I'm not going to defend the feminists, but their point surely was that both candidates stand for a minority (again in POLITICS) community and that both face injustices and both could provide hope for people from those communities to feel the world is more accepting of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fen99us View Post
This all started with feminists who felt the need to make ill comparisons between racism and sexism. There was never a need to do that. You can fight sexism without bringing race into it, just like many others have fought racism without bring sexism into it. And yet again, these people keep forgetting that the colored chick is at the bottom of this totem pole. The comparison by them is fucking absurd.

Moving right along...

Right after Obama won WI, I noticed that his donor count went up by at least 5k in a fucking half hour, at least 25k from Monday to Tuesday, and I just checked again and overnight he got another 15k donors! I never thought he'd make the 500k by March 4th, but hell...

  #627  
Old 02-20-2008, 09:29 AM
bodah's Avatar
stirred... rarely shaken
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute bodah has a reputation beyond repute
a sad morning for American women, whether some of us know it or not

Expresses my sentiments:

A Woman in the White House
Posted February 15, 2008 | 12:09 PM (EST)


I grew up in the kind of Midwestern small-town household in which my mother stayed at home with us kids, dealing with meals, laundry, cleaning, and volunteer work, while my father worked as a doctor and was the more authoritative disciplinarian. We were three daughters, though, and while our family was superficially traditional, we were fed a steady diet of "You can be whatever you want." That meant, to be honest, "you can do what boys do" more than it was an invitation to also become a full-time homemaker.

At age seven or so, I remember musing that I might become "a fashion designer or a nurse" when I grew up, and my mother responding a bit too intensely, "Or a doctor. You don't have to be a nurse. Women can be doctors!" Her adamance came not from any contempt for nurses -- her mother had sent three kids to college and helped countless people in Grand Forks, North Dakota, as an RN. No, the intensity with which she begged me to consider the more publicly valued work came from her own biography. Growing up, she got the impression there were two jobs for women: nurse or teacher. Once she got a glimpse, during the '70s, of the vastness of the world women might have access to, she felt a bit rooked. She got her Master's Degree and also invested many of her hopes into her daughters. She knew that until women occupied the spaces men had always called solely theirs, it would be hard to argue we were "just choosing" to become homemakers or nurses or other helping professions.

I have thought about my mother's dream that her daughters -- and thus women -- would continue to demonstrate that they were as good as men a lot lately, while observing the candidacy of Senator Hillary Clinton. She's not the first woman to run -- from Belva Lockwood (1884 and 1888) to Shirley Chisholm (1972) to Carole Moseley Braun (2004), we've had a handful of women gutsy enough to go for the top job -- but she is by far the most serious contender, as demonstrated by the infrastructure and money she has been able to attract. Like Oprah and Madonna, she has 100 percent name recognition, but unlike them, she has co-written and sponsored important legislation, is a very successful two-term Senator from a huge state, spoke of women's rights as human rights at the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995, and blocked the confirmation of the FDA commissioner to protest the long delay in approving Plan B for over-the-counter use. Of most direct benefit to me, she has created by far the most detailed and only truly universal health care proposal now before the voters.

The reasons people give for not supporting her range from her war authorization vote to fear that her husband will dominate the rest of the election cycle or the White House, but what I hear more is the fact that she's just not "electable" because, as some say, wrinkling their noses, "she not likeable." Creating this self-fulfilling prophecy, the media have piled on, chalking up 62 major incidents of egregious misogyny in the last six months, according to a tally of anti-Hillary sexist episodes in the primary campaign compiled by Melissa McEwan. As Stan Fish wrote on his New York Times blog, to mention her name is to prompt an archive more of vitriol, most of it reflecting a frightening level of woman-hating.

At my Brooklyn polling place on Super Tuesday, I unambivalently -- proudly! -- voted for Hillary Clinton. As I left the building, I started to cry. I'm often moved by voting, but it was a big deal to me, at age 37, to pull the lever for a woman who so clearly has what it takes. More than that, Senator Clinton has endured the attacks and derision we all know happens when women step out of line. She is becoming a sort of martyr-feminist, putting herself out there at great personal cost to put some reality behind our "free to be...you and me" rhetoric. I spoke with other friends who reported being utterly choked up. "I have devoted 40 years -- practically my entire adult life -- to bringing about this possibility, this fulfillment of what seemed an unattainable dream," an older friend wrote me in an email. "It's hard for me to understand those feminists who are voting for an unknown quantity instead of her, when they have this chance of a lifetime. Especially since the rivals' positions are so similar." Other women reported voting for Obama, then feeling surprised at how happy they were that Hillary did well on Super Tuesday. "I felt it would be selfish to vote for her," another friend told me.

Hillary Clinton is my mother's age. What might it mean for a woman of her generation to achieve what we all assumed would go to her daughter's generation? Sometimes I wonder if the pain of those missed opportunities, of wondering what could have been accomplished if one had simply been selfish or lived in a different time, is behind some of the commitment to making sure we don't have a woman in the White House except as First Lady.

A bitter reality is beginning to sink in for me, a daughter of the Second Wave. Here we are: several generations raised with the mantra that a "woman" could be president, and learning that we don't mean any woman who actually exists.

Jennifer Baumgardner: A Woman in the White House - Politics on The Huffington Post
  #628  
Old 02-20-2008, 09:35 AM
fen99us's Avatar
Vulcan
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,202
fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by ava__adore View Post
See I don't understand your position. On the one hand you reject any identity politics and seem to feel that voting for a woman or african american for that reason is unjustifiable in the same way as voting against one for this reason. And yet you seem happy to pay yourself on the back that America has narrowed down to these two 'minorities' (in POLITICAL terms). In addition you seem overjoyed that Obama who so rallies against 'the political system' the way it is handles in America get's huge amount of funding and establishment support.

The recent conversion of high profile African American supporters from Clinton to Obama is not only (in my opinion) political profiteering ('he's winning now, let's back him'), but also based in part on him being African American and them wanting to see an Afircan American (sure as a sign of overcoming historical and existing injustices) in such a high position. If so, I don't see how you can argue Obama's race is not an issue.

I'm not going to defend the feminists, but their point surely was that both candidates stand for a minority (again in POLITICS) community and that both face injustices and both could provide hope for people from those communities to feel the world is more accepting of them.
I really don't understand why you are so confused. I never said Obama's race isn't an issue, just like I never said Hillary's gender is not an issue. What I did say is that I wouldn't vote for either based on that information. However, assuming all things are equal: same exact character, same exact voting record, same experience, same political connections, and my choice was the woman or the man, I would probably choose the woman. And if it was the white vs the black, I'd probably choose the black. And if it was the black v. the woman, I'd just flip a coin. But that would be for the sake of visual change only, again, because all other things are otherwise equal. Obviously that's not the case here and I think the black just happens to be a better candidate.

As far as me patting myself on the back because we are down to two minorities, I think it's an undeniable historical moment that seems idiotic to ignore, no matter which of the two you prefer. It's a signal to us and the rest of the world that the United States is living up to its words.

And I have no idea what you're talking about in regard to being "overjoyed" that Obama is getting so much funding and establishment support. What you call overjoyed is actually shock and amazement. I didn't think he could pull it off. I saw that number when it was at the low 400k mark. That was earlier this month. It is now at 504,224. That's unbelievable.

As far as the feminists, I think I've covered them well in this thread and WW made great posts about this also. I don't think they were attempting to do a legitimate comparison, I think they are extremely biased toward a woman, and it shows. But you know, fine, be biased, why not leave race out of it? It certainly didn't help their argument.
__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

Last edited by fen99us; 02-20-2008 at 09:38 AM.
  #629  
Old 02-20-2008, 10:54 AM
fen99us's Avatar
Vulcan
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,202
fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute fen99us has a reputation beyond repute
Why you shouldn't call Obama's speech plagiarism. - By Jack Shafer - Slate Magazine

The Corner on National Review Online
__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin
  #630  
Old 02-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,308
vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute vegyrex has a reputation beyond repute
Obama supporter has trouble answering a question.


Chris Matthews Humiliates State Senator Kirk Watson On MSNBC - Media on The Huffington Post
Closed Thread

Tags
clinton , obama

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hillary Clinton playing "the gender card"?? sick of you news & politics 3 11-02-2007 11:38 PM
Barack Obama Would Consider Attacking Pakistan vegyrex news & politics 2 08-01-2007 11:32 AM
LOL!! Anti Hillary Ad Spoofing The Famous Macintosh Commercial vegyrex news & politics 3 03-22-2007 01:30 PM
"I'M IN" Hillary Makes It Official vegyrex news & politics 120 02-05-2007 03:47 PM
Bill Clinton Turns 60 vegyrex news & politics 40 08-28-2006 06:40 PM

 
Forum Stats
Members: 16,666
Threads: 48,543
Posts: 1,285,035
Total Online: 61

Newest Member: goldbaker88

Follow Kittyradio

Latest Threads
- by Sophia_



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:46 AM.

Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2

Site content: Copyright © 2006-2008 kittyradio.com
Any unauthorized usage and/or quotations from this site on other web sites
or in the press are copyright violations and will be pursued as such.
Violators will be prosecuted under United States copyright laws.