this is how i feel as well.

__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats

i hope alot. that way we get a more accurate record of the will of the people.

__________________
the cave mouth shines
by pure force of will
i look down on the world
from the top of this lonesome hill
and you can run, and run some more
from here all the way to singapore
but i will carry you home in my teeth
-mountain goats

word.

i've tried to explain this exact sentiment to other people. i don't want hillary to be immortalized as the "first female president"; i just don't think she'd live up to all that entails. the same goes for obama, i don't want him to become the "first black president" for the same reason. but i am warming up to him.

__________________

i just still don't know enough about what obama stands for
as for hillary i totally agree w/ what pablita said
and it really pisses me off
but yeah she just really doesn't do it for me

__________________
should i choose a noble occupation
if i did i'd only show up late and sick
and they would stare at me with hatred
plus my only natural talent's wasted

I'm so glad I'm black. Cuz I'm all about Obama and have no guilt issues for not wanting to vote for "the woman." Of course, I would never feel guilty for something like that anyway. That should never be the basis for wanting to vote for someone. Just a change of gender or race. However, if Hilary actually displayed the stereotypical characteristics of a woman, which made her more appealing than a man, perhaps I would pay more attention. Instead she comes across as just another old, wealthy, rich, out of touch white man who is detached from the things most Americans value. She cares about power. She cares about winning. I do not believe she cares about this country. I would take Edwards over her.

__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

Hillary makes my stomach turn. Just like about all of 'em except Kucinich, Obama, Paul and Richardson. Only Obama is given adequate shot at the House.

I'm really ecstatic about the turnout of young people. In the past election issues pertinent to senior citizens seemed to be the dominant domestic issues debated which in turn alienated me and a lot of other people I knew (I voted anyway, albeit for Nader). Not that seniors don't matter or shouldn't be addressed, but until only recently have I felt the youth has been spoken to--and this seems to be proven by a drastic increase in voters 18-30. In Iowa, for the 2004 caucus the amount of 65+ voters were double if not triple the 18-30 demograph; this time, they are equal. Furthermore Obama and Paul especially seem to be the catalysts for this change, and given how both come off as opposed to the Old Rule it's getting to be very exciting (whether or not you support or like either of the two, you gotta hand it to 'em for being innovative in terms of stimulating new voters, and winning converts from apathy).

and Fenus, I love your Anais quotes!

I'm just curious as to why people think Hillary is all about power as opposed to the other candidates.

Has she done anything specifically vile to give people the impression that she doesn't care about the country?

I know there was all that WhiteWater speculation etc. that made the Clintons look a little shady...but wasn't she the one who put her neck out on the line back in the early '90s so she could establish universal health care in the USA?

well she did take all that money from that asian guy

Hillary Incorporated!! Start by looking at her advisors, many of em ex-corporate lobbyists. Her communications advisor Howard Wolfson is linked to the lobbying firm Glover Group which has 'cozied' up with Murdoch and the drug companies.

They say that even the liberal in their camp, Harold Ickes, has lobbied for telecom and healthcare industries including a for-profit nursing home association indicted in Texas for improperly funneling money.

As well, she's more reliant on corporate money and large donations (the opposite of Ron Paul!). And advisers in her camp are affiliated with unionbusters, conservative media ... etc.

All that support has to be paid off sometime, like, oh, when she gets in office.

PS Also the 'people first' nonsense doesn;t hold up under tough questioning, and that's why she trips over herself avoiding the tough questions, cuz it don't hold up!

Also you might wanna check out Mark Penn, chief strategist! CEO of largest PR firm. Clients ... Shell Oil... PFizer... Oh my God. This guy wears a hundred masks ... his company is linked to Blackwater! and struggling mortgage lenders ...

Ah yes, her universal health care. If only she had stuck to it. She eventually sold out tho, and took money from the very people she was suppose to be fighting against.

Everything I've read about her youth, her goal has always been to be in a position of power. And her manner of speaking is beyond fake to me. Her inability to admit her faults and try to improve upon them (like how she was for the war, and instead of just admitting she was wrong she keeps harping about how Bush did x wrong, so she can shift the blame/focus). Her husband is scum too and she sticks by his ass.

I had my own reasons for not caring for the Clintons (back when I was in 9th grade I distinctly remember getting a creepy vibe from Bill, obviously not enough to base a vote on ...altho he did turn out to be a creepy fuck). There have been books published on the Clintons and the shitty things they did while they were in office for 8 years. Bush didn't fuck this country up all on his own, he inherited quite a mess.

Edit: Oh and I forgot about the first hand accounts from people that worked as security for the Clintons during the presidency. All described her to be a psychotic bitch. Flipping out over the most ridiculous shit.

__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

The entire inhereting a mess thing is something that has continued on and on and on.

Which is why I'm not really sold on the entire Obama = change thing.

I don't think it is possible to change our country by electing a different president. The branches of our government cannot work together. Everything is a mess. There are extremists all over the place and all over the spectrum.

So I'm going to vote for Ted Nugent. Because he's a real long shot candidate and because I think it would be funny.

Of course inheriting a mess goes on and on, but there were certain things that Bill could have done to help our country, but he chose not to because he was afraid it would hurt him politically at the time. Voting really boils down to what you perceive to be the lesser of evils. Thus far, I find Obama to be a lesser evil than Hilary and her husband.

Now, if you want to vote for a long shot, I think you should go with Ron Paul. At least he remembers we have a freaking Constitution to uphold.

__________________
"How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself."

"I postpone death by living, by suffering, by error, by risking, by giving, by losing."

"I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy. "

-from the goddess that is Anaïs Nin

Its called double standards.

^ no hillary has the most coproate interests ties, she was on the board for WALMART for gods sake

And her hubby made 31 million in speaking fees between 2001 and 2005. Who sponsored his speeches? Well ... Citigroup. Goldman Sachs. Deutsche Bank. Banco de Mexico. etc.

Clinton's Golden Voice | Bill Clinton's Paid Speeches | washingtonpost.com

However these organizations are also linked to Hillary. Citigroup and Goldman Sachs are her top campaign contributers.........

Of course we all know banks put people first. Er...

And yet, her voting record gives her a good rating from the AFL-CIO, from NARAL, Gay & Lesbian groups, the NAACP, environmental groups. She gets a big fat zero from the Christian Coalition (thats good), and isn't a friend of the NRA.

On the other hand, Ron Paul is anti choice, anti environment, anti gay & lesbian rights, anti senior, and he gets a gold star from the NRA and the Christian Coalition.

lol @ ron paul, wonder what his supporters think of fundie support

why do you say sad times for that? I thought you like obama?

what oprah thing? do you mean because she's supporting him?

I think it's mostly just a way of establishing the voters' moods on the way to determining the nominees for each political party. Unfortunately the ones that happen very early, such as Iowa's have become disproportionately influential in american politics.
& the republicans still do a secret ballot for the Iowa caucus. apparently the republicans are a bit smarter when it comes to this.

You may be exaggerating a bit on purpose, but if not, I'd just like to say in my estimation it's really only about 1/2 of americans that hate her so much. and it's usually not because they see her as dishonest. or rather if they do, they don't hold their own candidates to any such scrutiny. because the people who truly hate her are usually republicans and I don't think anyone in their right mind considers bush the 2nd to be a very honest president. but this is how they operate- in a very black/white universe where people with their views on abortions can do no wrong and people with opposing views can do no right. this is of course, also a very simplistic view, but what I'm trying to get at is that I think they despise hillary more for what they imagine her to be than anything she really is. they consider her vile because she represents feminism, liberalism, she's a powerful woman, etc. whether or not she actually represents any of those things is sort of irrelevant to them. I think her dishonesty (perceived or real) is more important to the democrats when they're deciding which candidate to pick.

bottom line though is that I agree with you- I do think she'll bring out a bunch of people to vote against her if she's the nominee.

but he really didn't win either time. well at least the first time around, it's certa