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  #41  
Old 12-12-2007, 11:15 AM
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herekitty herekitty is offline
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Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci View Post
I guess what happens is that, when people don't get evolution, they're more open to the literalists pedalling a hard-and-fast, easy-answers-type version of Christianity.
yes, that was part of my point. if you're not given a solid foundation in understanding science in general and evolution in particular, it's much easier to be convinced that it's all bunk by people with an agenda.

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Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci View Post
Here, we've had things like the Peasant's Revolt to remind us that our institutions are only worth defending up to the point where they're getting way more out of it than we are. I don't know that America's had an equivalent.
I think the American Revolution was our equivalent. But as far as I can tell, 99% of the US population can't remember what happened in history one year ago, let alone more than 200 years ago. Or even when they can, they fail to put it into context. You get the general impression when you're learning US history that the colonists were fighting against some great evil and oppression when in reality I think the US colonies were some of the least oppressed colonies in history. At least when talking about the British empire. Not that I disapprove of the colonists' actions really, it's just when it comes down to the heart of the matter, it was mostly about taxes. And the founding fathers put it right in the declaration of independence:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,

but the most radical thinking most people here ever have is voting a third party candidate.


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Originally Posted by Wildwoman View Post
I do think that literal interpretation of the Bible is the problem here - if you believe that Darwin and the Bible can co-exist without contradiction, then you don't have a problem with teaching evolution in schools.
yes and no. this also depends on an understanding of science, something that ~90% of people in the US seem to lack. it's not their fault really; the lines have been deliberately blurred by people with political agendas. So that even quite reasonable people who "believe" in evolution do admit that "it's only a theory", not realizing that a theory is the closest thing to fact you'll ever get in science. I put "believe" in quotation marks because it seems strange to me that people want to use the same process they use to come to a decision on god for science and it shouldn't really work that way.
But really- and this is anecdotal evidence and is therefore meaningless- I don't know of anyone, even here in the south who literally believes that the earth is only 6000 years old and the dinosaur bones were planted by god as a test of their faith or anything like that. and some members of my family are deeply religious. I've never seen/read inherit the wind. but. I have no doubt that the small minority who do believe in literal bible interpretation have managed to spread their influence on scientific agenda without necessarily getting people to agree with them.


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Originally Posted by Wildwoman View Post
If there had been parents who seriously objected at my school, they certainly wouldn't have been placated by what the teacher said.
Maybe. This is where the anti-intellectualism and anti-science come into play. People are distrustful of scientists and intellectuals when it comes to controversial topics, so I'm not sure they would have been placated.
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  #42  
Old 12-12-2007, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by herekitty View Post
yes, that was part of my point. if you're not given a solid foundation in understanding science in general and evolution in particular, it's much easier to be convinced that it's all bunk by people with an agenda.
Indeed. The danger is that people see science as just another choice, like it makes sense to flip a coin to decide whether you trust The Bible of The Origin Of The Species. It only makes sense to do that if you've read neither of them.

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Originally Posted by herekitty View Post
I think the American Revolution was our equivalent.
Which pretty illustrates the difference; you guys won your revolution. We went back to our hovels and just resolved from that point on that we'd carry on doing what we were told but do it really half-arsedly.

This is a slight simplifaction of the Peasents Revolt.
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