i agree, it was a stupid analogy.

why are you people even fucking using analogies? you can't talk about someone being sexually violated/assaulted without using an analogy with inanimate objects?
I don't need an analogy to comprehend the complicated nature of sex crimes, or to understand that there are degrees of rape. nor do I care for assertions that women shouldn't dress provocatively. in our culture this is encouraged and lauded by men (and some women), who then turn around and say "you shouldn't have dressed that way." ugh, it's disgusting.

It wasn't even an analogy really, it was just to illustrate that provocation is taken into account with most crimes, and thus I don't see why it wouldn't be with this one. No-one is actually comparing living people to inanimate objects and it'd pretty retarded to try to draw that conclusion.

I'm curious to know how you would advise me, a female, to take every possible precaution against getting raped. Please let me know.

yeah, they could. they could rape me too. and?

in the uk provocation is only a valid defense for murder and only to reduce it to manslaughter (though it may mitigate in sentencing of other crimes), so should have no bearing on rape conviction.

and even if it were, there's also a test of reasonableness required for provocation to be a valid defense: is it reasonable to murder your husband after years of physical and mental abuse? yes. is it reasonable to rape someone because they dress like a slut? no. though in some times and cultures this might have been a yes

anyway provocative dress is meant to provoke attraction, not rape.

__________________
she's a haunted house and her windows are broken

Are there really idiots that think that if a girls wants to look sexy, means she wants to get raped?

Yes, even a smile can be taken as a come-on. some delusional men will think you like them even if you ignore them, they think you're playing hard to get.

You Must Figure Out How To Renew Your Subscription Before Repping oasis (or anyone) Again

wow the survey is a piece of shit

did your ghost writer do that when you weren't looking?
Generally, when using an analogy the reader/listener can assume the other person is substituting one concept for another in order to make the argument clearer in another context. So, in this case, a willing pussy is money and rape is mugging. And is it just me, or were you talking about cars and houses?
Yeah, pretty fucking clueless of me to come up with that interpretation.

oh, and furthermore, I would make a distinction between being provoked and being raped... but that's just me.

Duh, obviously you need to lock yourself in a closet alone wearing a bag over your head and stay there for the entire rest of your life. Are you such a whiny little selfish bitch that you can’t take responsibility for doing this? If you can’t do it for yourself, think of the poor gay men who have to be around all those annoying women claiming that how they dress shouldn’t lead to rape – sure, I and every woman and girl past puberty I’ve ever met has been sexually harassed while wearing things like heavy winter coats and sweat suits, and I’ve never heard of any statistics indicating that women who dress ‘provocatively’ actually are more likely to get raped, but I am a mere woman nearing 40 who has been actively involved in keeping up with the stats, and the stories, and with talking extensively to other females about these issues for more than half my life. Clearly, a guy in his 20s with a lot of hostility toward women would know much better.

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::round of applause::

I especially agree with the part about being harassed in full winter getup/wearing things anything but provocative. I've been sexually harassed (Not in the 'oh, he's just flirting and she's crying harassment sort of way'- the guy would unzip his fly, etc.) at work. I've had someone try to pick me up at 8:30am on a Sunday morning going to work when I was wearing a scandalous long wool coat, pants, and snow boots combo.

And I'm sure that's totally what the people surveyed were thinking. "Hey, I saw a woman the other day, and she didn't acknowledge me. SHE MUST HAVE BEEN PLAYING HARD TO RAPE!!!!"

It's very easy to argue that provocation isn't a factor if you work to the assumption that the most provocative any woman gets is smiling at someone or failing to cover up her ankles. That just ain't the case. Some girls, especially younger ones, act like they're completely oblivious to how their actions will be interpretted, and I suspect that a lot of them aren't entirely oblivious.

As an example, to make it clear what I'm on about, how hard is it to just not accept offers to buy you drinks? OK, so being bought a drink doesn't obligate you to put out. So what? Again, why leave anyone in doubt?

Hey, here's an idea: why not keep going on about it in the hope of implying that I don't think rape is a serious crime? I'm clearly asking for it.

Okay, here is another analogy:

Two people go out on a sailboat ride. One carries a fishing rod, a net, and some anchovies; the other takes along a saute pan, butter, lipstick and some red wine. At the end of the day they get friendly after eating a nice meal of salmon.

The next day the woman claims she was raped.

What clue most describes why the woman was raped?

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

Do you have some reason to be sure that women/girls who act like this are in fact more likely to be raped? Or is it just what seems likely to you?

Oh, and I accidently forgot the drink thing - do you have any concept of how refusing the drinks runs the risk of being treated to WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU YOU FUCKING STUCK-UP BITCH I JUST WANTED TO BUY YOU A FUCKING DRINK AND YOU ACT LIKE YOU'RE TOO GOOD FOR IT SO FUCK YOU YOU UGLY CUNT I DIDN'T LIKE YOU ANYWAY. Women are still, despite your obvious belief that the girls you met in college and those on kr consitute the vast majority, socialized to go along and not make waves. Smile and hope they'll go away.

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I don't know if they're more likely to get raped, but they're a lot more likely to be seen as partly to blame by others, which was the subject of the survey. I'm not saying I agree with those people, but I don't get why people are so surprised that it's a widespread opinion. I'd be surprised if it weren't more widespread, actually.

I don't buy that, sorry. I don't think anyone is actually incapable of politely refusing a drink. The way you describe it, you'd think rape was a lot more bearable than being shouted at by someone. I doubt very much that that's the case. Certainly, I wouldn't consider it disgusting or gross for someone to suggest that, in that situation, the woman's partly responsible, because there's clearly something she could have done.

We've discussed this in another thread, and I can see what you mean, but I don't know, I'm inclined to think that if you sleep with someone to avoid the inconvenience of saying "no"... tough titty. It's not nice, but shit happens.