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11-28-2007, 11:45 PM
|  | a.k.a Madge Spammer | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panama
Posts: 8,223
| | | Success Depends on Others Failing Reward mechanisms in the brain depend on how well you think other people are doing, a new neurological study suggests. The findings, published in the Nov. 23 issue of the journal Science are the first to lend physiological proof to a longstanding theory among contemporary economists: that people are affected not only by their own achievements and income, but also by how they stack up against their neighbors.
The study, by cognition experts and economists at the University of Bonn in Germany, looks at the brain regions that process reward. Nineteen pairs of subjects performed a series of tasks, estimating the number of dots on a screen, while their brains were scanned. Each time a subject answered correctly, he or she won a cash prize but the prizes were not always the same. Players could see whether their opponents had answered correctly, and how the prize money was distributed.
The researchers were especially interested in the set of outcomes where both players answered correctly. For any given prize value, the brain's reward response was bigger if the other player earned less. Players on average were more pleased with a 60 euro prize when the other player got just 30 euros, for example, than they were if both players earned 60 euros, or if the other player got more.
"In a sense it goes back to Aristotle," says the paper's senior author, Armin Falk, an economist. "The fact that we are social beings is a well-known fact." But the idea that rewards are context-dependent challenges a key assumption behind most traditional of economic theories: the premise that humans are essentially self-interested, that they care about their own work, income, achievements, and purchases, and that whatever other people do is, if not irrelevant, at least not going to have a consistent or predictable effect on decision-making.
Instead, the brain scans from this study support a mountain of survey data collected by modern economists and psychologists that suggests people care very much about keeping up with the Joneses. In the past, researchers have often struggled to work out how much they could trust that data, not sure whether survey-takers might be changing their response consciously or unconsciously based on what they thought was socially acceptable. The Science findings give further empirical evidence that people compare their gains to others'. "If you look at the brain reaction, it's a relatively immediate physiological reaction," says Falk. "It shows on a deeper level, in the brain, these things really matter."
The practical implications? Many scholars believe that social comparison helps to explain why, even as much of the world gets ever richer, people today don't report being happier than people did 50 years ago. We might not be happy now if we had to give up the amenities of the last half-century computers, air conditioners, a bedroom for every child, and more — but back when no one else had them either, life was okay.
There's also a lesson here for company managers, says Falk. A wage scale should reflect job and performance differences fairly, or else firms risk alienating their staff. "It's extremely important for companies to understand it's not just a matter of justice, but it's also a matter of efficiency," he says. It turns out the negative response to earning less is usually stronger than the positive response to earning more or as Falk says, "The pain of having less is much stronger than the joy of having more." Workers who discover they're earning more for the same work may be happy, but those who earn less can quickly feel slighted, killing motivation and often the quality of their output. It doesn't take a brain specialist to understand how that affects a business. | 
11-28-2007, 11:48 PM
|  | u bet i'll b ur boyfriend | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 930
| | | Of course HCH would post such a thing. | 
11-29-2007, 02:46 AM
|  | AWAY!!! On Vacation! | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northern California
Posts: 4,134
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnson2492 Of course HCH would post such a thing. | He's trying to figure out why he's such a loser. | 
11-29-2007, 05:00 AM
|  | a.k.a Madge Spammer | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panama
Posts: 8,223
| | | I just thought it was interesting, because I have fetl minor joy when I outshine other people and I've seen lots of people gloat at my failures, and the article shed some light on why we do that- | 
11-29-2007, 08:35 AM
|  | u bet i'll b ur boyfriend | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 930
| | envy and pride are bad  | 
11-29-2007, 11:42 AM
|  | . | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chile/Cheetham Hill
Posts: 929
| | | "Success Depends on Others Failing"
Only the ones who failed care about this. | 
11-29-2007, 11:47 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | | Failure depends on others succeeding.
So, it depends how nice you are as a person. | 
11-29-2007, 10:31 PM
|  | a.k.a Madge Spammer | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panama
Posts: 8,223
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by creez "Success Depends on Others Failing"
Only the ones who failed care about this. | so I take it you are massively succesful. | 
11-29-2007, 11:17 PM
|  | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,962
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by HighClassHo Many scholars believe that social comparison helps to explain why, even as much of the world gets ever richer, people today don't report being happier than people did 50 years ago.
"The pain of having less is much stronger than the joy of having more."
Workers who discover they're earning more for the same work may be happy, but those who earn less can quickly feel slighted, killing motivation and often the quality of their output. |
"Success is failure"
~~carefulcarpenter
__________________ Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is; Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown; Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter | 
11-30-2007, 05:03 AM
|  | Phil Goff | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,381
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by creepyer He's trying to figure out why he's such a loser. | Odds on his success?
__________________ Time is the distance that you can't return by miles.
I escaped somehow. Let's go actualy [sic] I have quite a blessed life if I'm honest. I have many people to love, hate few and have few money problem's [sic].... What more does a person need? Oh yeah and I have some kind of humbleness unlike you of course ^_^ ~ CarefulCarpenter | 
11-30-2007, 10:09 AM
|  | AWAY!!! On Vacation! | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northern California
Posts: 4,134
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by bort Odds on his success? | Almost certain to succeed if you ask me. | 
11-30-2007, 10:14 AM
|  | pawking metaws | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: vivian comma close
Posts: 9,425
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia_ "Success is failure"
~~carefulcarpenter | plagiarism is plagiarism | 
11-30-2007, 01:11 PM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia_ "Success is failure"
~~carefulcarpenter | Failure is not success though. | 
11-30-2007, 10:42 PM
|  | Phil Goff | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,381
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci Failure is not success though. | But it is if you're trying to fail! Although I doubt anyone ever believed those slow kids who said "I was trying to lose" on sports day at school.
__________________ Time is the distance that you can't return by miles.
I escaped somehow. Let's go actualy [sic] I have quite a blessed life if I'm honest. I have many people to love, hate few and have few money problem's [sic].... What more does a person need? Oh yeah and I have some kind of humbleness unlike you of course ^_^ ~ CarefulCarpenter | 
12-03-2007, 11:40 PM
|  | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,962
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by HighClassHo
There's also a lesson here for company managers, says Falk. A wage scale should reflect job and performance differences fairly, or else firms risk alienating their staff. "It's extremely important for companies to understand it's not just a matter of justice, but it's also a matter of efficiency," he says. It turns out the negative response to earning less is usually stronger than the positive response to earning more or as Falk says, "The pain of having less is much stronger than the joy of having more." Workers who discover they're earning more for the same work may be happy, but those who earn less can quickly feel slighted, killing motivation and often the quality of their output. It doesn't take a brain specialist to understand how that affects a business. | Unfortunately, this study examines empirical evidence of envy and misperception. Imagine if those in the study were playing slot machines; their envy would generate similar results even though the reward was all chance.
In a study from Cornel University they found that incompetants do not evaluate their own lack of competence fairly--believing they can do more than results indicate. Similar problem in the workplace, even though wages may appear fair, an incompetent worker will still be less productive due to feeling slighted for not receiving equal compensation to more productive workers and management.
"The competent can;
The incompetent say they can;
The miserable manage;
The rest make excuses"
~~carefulcarpenter
__________________ Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is; Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown; Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter
Last edited by Sophia_ : 12-03-2007 at 11:43 PM.
| 
12-04-2007, 12:51 PM
|  | work that limp | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: saff london
Posts: 953
| | | i highly doubt you'll ever be successful hch, mostly cause your annoying. it has nothing to do with anyone else | 
12-04-2007, 01:13 PM
|  | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,962
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by sundaydress i highly doubt you'll ever be successful hch, mostly cause your annoying. it has nothing to do with anyone else | HCH will eventually see the blessing beneath the imperfection and success will depend on perception. The most successful are driven to prove themselves perfect, which is little more than a blinder shielding their ego from a much bigger picture.
HCH is facing ridicule and self examination--a builder of character and resilience to those who would be an obstacle to growth, if taken seriously.
"People who are annoyed haven't looked very honestly into their own mirror of self-projection"
~~carefulcarpenter
__________________ Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is; Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown; Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter | 
12-04-2007, 01:18 PM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | | How do you face self examination? | 
12-04-2007, 01:25 PM
|  | whirling dervisher | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spin me
Posts: 1,962
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci How do you face self examination? | One must own those aspects of oneself that are perceived by others as part of ones totality. Not easy to accept the shadow, but it is the hidden side that can only be seen through reflection, irritation, and reaction.
__________________ Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is; Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown; Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter | 
12-04-2007, 08:04 PM
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