 | | 
06-11-2007, 01:15 PM
|  | stirred... rarely shaken | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
| | | Is Islam the cruelest of the world's major religions? I think so.
(Please do not remove this post to the religious/spiritual section, because the discussion that follows is more political than spiritual)
I used to think of myself as very tolerant of a variety of ideas and beliefs. But as a secular humanist, I can no longer be tolerant of this religion or turn a blind eye to the cruelty and human rights violations that it condones. It's particularly cruel toward women and female children. The Qu'ran condones violence and relishes in the threat of hell for unbelievers (including people of "the book", such as Christians and Jews). Totalitarianism and extremism are perpetuated in Muslim theocracies such as Saudi Arabia because the Qu’ran forbids secularism. If a Muslim converts to any other religion, that conversion is punishable by death. Even in Egypt, which is considered a more tolerant Muslim country, questioning the word of Muhammad is punishable by incarceration. It is madness and backwardness, not to mention cruel.
I used to buy the line that Islam was a religion of tolerance and peace because of the few Muslims I knew, who were very kind, thoughtful and sweet women from Malaysia that I was acquainted with in college. I admired their devoutness because they regularly faced Mecca and prayed throughout the day. I thought that they were not unlike some devout Catholics I knew. Because they liked me, they would tell me that they wanted to convert me to Islam to save me from the fires of hell. At the time, I thought it was sweet that they were so concerned, and politely said something like, “no thanks- I don’t believe hell is in store for anyone who is a good person” and they would continue to warn me that my flesh would burn off in the fires as it is written in the Qu’ran.… There was something creepy about it all, and since I’m not easily offended, I took no insult, even when they made me feel far beneath them on the moral scale. Every one of their class projects was based on a Koranic theme. One of them was also very proud of being a descendant of Muhammad, and claimed to be royalty....... Anyway, it’s been years since I last saw them, but they made an impression on me. I wonder how they are doing…. I know they were betrothed through arranged marriages by their families.
Last edited by bodah; 06-11-2007 at 01:23 PM.
| 
06-11-2007, 01:16 PM
|  | stirred... rarely shaken | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
| | | After taking courses on the history of the Middle Ages and learning much about the atrocities and strife between various Christian groups, I adopted a critical view of Christianity, of course rejecting all of the fundamental and evangelical forms of Christianity. There are several tenets that I like about the Catholic faith, such as the Corporal Works of Mercy (feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, ransom the captive bury the dead, etc.) and Spiritual Works of Mercy (instruct the ignorant, counsel the doubtful, admonish sinners [in Islam, it would be CONDEMN sinners—very different], forgive offences willingly, comfort the afflicted, etc.). But for the most part, I’ve been disappointed with Christian charlatanism as well as provocative claims in Judaism, such as Jews having a monopoly as “God’s Chosen.” All this superiority--- everyone thinking that their religion is the one of the “True God” and the thought that any “creator” favors one human being or culture over another--- it all really drives me crazy, the inhumanity. If there is a Supreme Being, which I find highly doubtful, s/he would consider us all such an arrogant lot! Mean to each other and really unworthy of any form of divine intervention, for all the cruelties we commit against one another. If anything, I think a truly merciful and peaceful god would probably regard the Buddhists as the most “enlightened’ (wink on the reference) of all human beings. If there is anything that is certain to me, it’s that humans create “GOD” in their own image--- be that image cruel or tolerant.
Last edited by bodah; 06-11-2007 at 01:25 PM.
| 
06-11-2007, 01:17 PM
|  | stirred... rarely shaken | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
| | But back to Islam and the state of the world and the politics of the Middle East…..
I think it’s a mistake to be tolerant of Islam in the political arena, because Islam does not allow any tolerance of anything other than itself. Anyone who does not believe in the word of Muhammad is “infidel” and will burn in eternal hell, so why be granted any mercy by devout Muslims on earth? Quote:
Sura 4:56: “They that deny our revelations will burn in the fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than we shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.”
Sura 48:29: “Muhammad is God’s Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another” and that a cruel punishment awaits Sura 40:71: “Those who have denied the Book and the message we sent through our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles around their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and burnt in the fire of hell.”
| Oh, and here are Qu’ran’s justifications for the human rights abuses that occur in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, including what we in the US have deemed “cruel and unusual punishment” in our Constitution: Quote: |
Those that make war against God and his Apostle [Muhammad] and spread unrest in the land shall be put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the country. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter: except those that repent before you reduce them. For you must know that God is forgiving and merciful.
| (!?) –Sura 5:33 | 
06-11-2007, 01:19 PM
|  | stirred... rarely shaken | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
| | Is the following why so many Muslims risk their lives as suicide bombers: Quote: |
“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.”
| – Sura 9:123
The reason I am now intolerant of Islam (and not the people, rather, the dogma of the Qu’ran) is because I think it is cruel and dangerous to be tolerant of such evil and intolerance – it would condone religion-sanctioned violence. Likewise, if you were told that women are afforded a measure of “separate but equal” in the Qu’ran, think again. According to the Qu’ran, one female witness’s testimony is worth ½ a man’s.
“Men have authority over women because God made one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them” (Sura 4:34) Wives are to be submissive to their husbands, who are thus advised: “Women are your fields; go then, into your fields whence you please” (Sura 2:223) and “Good women are obedient…. As for those whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them” (Sura 4:34). If that’s not demented enough, consider that these passages were written by a pedophile and so-called “prophet” who, at the age of 50 or so, married to a CHILD the age of 6 and reportedly CONSUMMATED that marriage when the child was 9. Read the Hadith yourself, an account of Muhammed’s life.
At any rate, I often called out the cruelty of the Israelis toward the Palestinians in Gaza and wondered what the hell gives Israelis the right to just start taking over Palestinian land. Though I still question the practices of Israel, I understand the hard line Israel takes, and why they are so cautious against jihadists.
Before I knew what I know now, I used to scoff at W’s inarticulate charge that jihadists were “enemies of freedom.” I used to argue that Muslims everywhere are persecuted, poor, and uneducated and therefore we must not add more fuel to the fire with the provocation of American fear--- because it is fear, after all, that leads to war, and this horrible quagmire in Iraq, which I opposed from the outset. But now I see (though I still can’t stand W) a bit of truth to W’s statement. Islam simply does not allow free thought, the free exchange of ideas, or the questioning of itself or Muhammad’s teachings. It’s why Salman Rushdie is still living in hiding all these years! It’s why the filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the Netherlands for his film about the submission of Muslim women. It’s why Israel is constantly under threat of suicide bombers. Because the Qu’ran states that if you are killing or punishing “unbelievers,” you are doing God’s work—and there is no major movement in Islam today to counter that. | 
06-11-2007, 01:19 PM
|  | stirred... rarely shaken | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northwest
Posts: 600
| | | I used to think Muslim fundamentalists were not much different from Christian fundamentalists. I used to say that freaks exist everywhere, and that no major religion in the world had a monopoly on crazed followers. But between Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Jews, which one offers Paradise to suicides who kill “nonbelievers”? Also, since the European Enlightenment, there has been a movement toward secularized government in the West, democracy and freedoms of religion and speech. Even now, as Western countries have offered asylum to many Muslims, freedom of speech is threatened – by a threat of DEATH to authors such as those who write comic strips with Muhammad’s likeness. Such comic strips are also often criticized as “Western bigotry” and “racism” by the “politically correct.” (Personally, I think political correctness is an attack on free speech.)
I also now believe that nuclear weapons should not be allowed in the hands of any theocracy, including any government that uses Islam as a basis for its law. I used to think, what the hell, if we have nuclear weapons, then what right have we to prevent any other country from having them? Was I ever mistaken, bless my fair-minded soul! We just as soon give nuclear weapons to a modern-day Jim Jones /People’s Temple, thankyouverymuch! (see passages above on Qu’ran sanctioned murder of unbelievers)
What about the so-called human rights movement in more “progressive” nations of the Islamic world? Queen Rania of Jordan supports Islam but claims to promote women’s rights, citing examples such as Jordan not requiring women to wear a hijab (head scarf). She also claims that Islam does not condone “honor killings.” Well, hello, I guess that’s a start. But really, she has little in common with women of lower classes; Rania is allowed rights because of her status of monarch; those rights are protected. What about Jordanian women who not killed but are beaten, and how beatings are condoned by the Qu’ran? (see above) That topic is never addressed in her interviews or speeches. I wonder whether the Jordanian government prosecutes assaults on women for not wearing a hidjab? Maybe someone can enlighten me. Surely, violence against women is related to murder, even if actual murder in the form of honor killing is not actually condoned in the Qu’ran.
My point is that there’s nothing admirable about tolerating a religion that promotes violence against women or “unbelievers.” Sorry, but I think compassion and humanity are more important values to uphold than “religious tolerance.”
Well, that’s enough food for thought for now.
Recommended reading: “The Caged Virgin” and “Infidel” by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. "The Qu’ran" by a pedophile named Muhammad. | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | | | Forum Stats | Members: 16,670 Threads: 48,562 Posts: 1,285,646 Total Online: 129 Newest Member: Lilys_mama | | |