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06-04-2007, 10:23 AM
|  | ya basta | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: shallow grave
Posts: 1,720
| | Quote: |
But I am too cool for him, and his views are silly. And I am dismissive and arrogant.
| fair enough. Quote: |
It's just been my experience, from working in local government, that "They" are just individuals, like you and me, and that most things that have been attributed to secret conspiracies are much more likely to stem from human incompetence.
| again, fair point. hence most nazis being otherwise normal family men. Quote: |
I guess it's a problem the left has, that it holds itself up to as much criticism as its enemies (something which I think is less common with the right, who'll tend to overlook people's methods as long as what they're doing is "right").
| yes, it is a problem, constant self reflection is fine, but it means the right is better on the whole united front thing. probably still the best way to do it though.
and i'm against trendy polemicism, and the kind of marxist 'hero' who understands the theory fine, but not the actual impact (we used to have one here, not sure he posts anymore) and thus tends to very stupid things.i just have a knee jerk reaction against cynicism, and lack of actual discussion.  |
06-04-2007, 10:26 AM
|  | Phil Goff | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,678
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by kesh  you guys are just reinforcing the marketplace. state monopoly burgers are fucking delicious | 4 realz? I haven't tried them.
__________________
Time is the distance that you can't return by miles.
I escaped somehow. Let's go
actualy [sic] I have quite a blessed life if I'm honest. I have many people to love, hate few and have few money problem's [sic].... What more does a person need? Oh yeah and I have some kind of humbleness unlike you of course ^_^ ~ CarefulCarpenter |
06-04-2007, 10:56 AM
|  | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by never was yes, it is a problem, constant self reflection is fine, but it means the right is better on the whole united front thing. probably still the best way to do it though.
and i'm against trendy polemicism, and the kind of marxist 'hero' who understands the theory fine, but not the actual impact (we used to have one here, not sure he posts anymore) and thus tends to very stupid things.i just have a knee jerk reaction against cynicism, and lack of actual discussion. | Yeah, it's just that longshot's stuff has all been posted before. No-one really feels much like humouring him anymore. |
06-04-2007, 12:27 PM
|  | stratocaster | | Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 932
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by never was fair enough.
again, fair point. hence most nazis being otherwise normal family men.
yes, it is a problem, constant self reflection is fine, but it means the right is better on the whole united front thing. probably still the best way to do it though.
and i'm against trendy polemicism, and the kind of marxist 'hero' who understands the theory fine, but not the actual impact (we used to have one here, not sure he posts anymore) and thus tends to very stupid things.i just have a knee jerk reaction against cynicism, and lack of actual discussion. |
"...luftwaffe..." |
06-04-2007, 12:34 PM
| | stratocaster | | Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 932
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by never was
yes, it is a problem, constant self reflection is fine, but it means the right is better on the whole united front thing. probably still the best way to do it though. |
what if the strength of the Right is simply in their dominating methods? and their quickness at lying?
Plato's teachings dominate western culture and have for a long time. is it because he was right about everything? plato's world included the vomitorium. slavery was a GIVEN. women had no real rights. only MEN were citizens in that Republic.
i cite Plato as being why it SEEMS that the Right is always Right.
But on a seesaw, both sides vacillate wildly ("Koyaanisqatsi" if you get the reference.) the Center is the place of greatest stability.
we see that theme repeated in true wisdom schools, the middle way of the Buddhists...but in politics, because of the domination of Platonic thought, there isn't much that's developed that has a lot of adherents. that can happen in the 21st c. (who knows what will happen at all tomorrow's parties.) but -- Communism and Socialism were created by Capitalists, secretly, precisely to create the sort of self defeating left wing radicals who never really ever smash the state -- but they say it over and over again. but they close their eyes to leftist Leaders like Guevara and Pol Pot, Stalin and Lenin, and foolishly try to convince others that NATIONAL SOCIALISM was somehow "Not socialism." doublethink and totalitarianism, and the beards have all grown longer overnight. |
06-04-2007, 12:39 PM
|  | for beauty douglas | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: i am the cheese
Posts: 9,922
| | | "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
__________________
she's a haunted house and her windows are broken |
06-04-2007, 12:54 PM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by kesh "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans." |
~~carefulcarpenter |
06-04-2007, 12:59 PM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot i cite Plato as being why it SEEMS that the Right is always Right. | I don't think anyone was saying that they're right, just that they're better at pushing their views than the left because they're less likely to pontificate and fight amongst themselves, what with the reduced emphasis on personal freedom (the real kind, not the kind you're supposed to get from the Constitution).
But given the choice between a preferred ideology and a less preferable system that actually functions, I'd probably opt for the latter. Quote: |
Originally Posted by longshot But on a seesaw, both sides vacillate wildly ("Koyaanisqatsi" if you get the reference.) the Center is the place of greatest stability. | You'd think, but it doesn't always ring true. Sometimes, it's better to pick one or the other and piss a few people off, than try and take a middle path and piss everyone off half as much. They have the problem with Iraq, that one side wants the troops to be pulled out, and the other half wants to stay. It seems to make sense to withdraw half of them, to appease both sides, but in fact that would be the worst thing they could do, as it would simply exacerbate one problem and not offer any solution. Quote: |
Originally Posted by longshot Communism and Socialism were created by Capitalists, secretly, precisely to create the sort of self defeating left wing radicals who never really ever smash the state -- but they say it over and over again. but they close their eyes to leftist Leaders like Guevara and Pol Pot, Stalin and Lenin, and foolishly try to convince others that NATIONAL SOCIALISM was somehow "Not socialism."
doublethink and totalitarianism,
and the beards have all grown longer overnight. | I've wondered this myself, actually. Ideas like "working class pride" seem way too good at keeping people from revolting to be anything BUT hegemonic forces at work. It's that or people really just don't want freedom if they have security. Which I could believe, actually. |
06-04-2007, 02:11 PM
| | ya basta | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: shallow grave
Posts: 1,720
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot what if the strength of the Right is simply in their dominating methods? and their quickness at lying?
Plato's teachings dominate western culture and have for a long time. is it because he was right about everything? plato's world included the vomitorium. slavery was a GIVEN. women had no real rights. only MEN were citizens in that Republic.
i cite Plato as being why it SEEMS that the Right is always Right.
But on a seesaw, both sides vacillate wildly ("Koyaanisqatsi" if you get the reference.) the Center is the place of greatest stability.
we see that theme repeated in true wisdom schools, the middle way of the Buddhists...but in politics, because of the domination of Platonic thought, there isn't much that's developed that has a lot of adherents. that can happen in the 21st c. (who knows what will happen at all tomorrow's parties.) but --
Communism and Socialism were created by Capitalists, secretly, precisely to create the sort of self defeating left wing radicals who never really ever smash the state -- but they say it over and over again. but they close their eyes to leftist Leaders like Guevara and Pol Pot, Stalin and Lenin, and foolishly try to convince others that NATIONAL SOCIALISM was somehow "Not socialism."
doublethink and totalitarianism,
and the beards have all grown longer overnight. |
that wasnt an appraisal of the Right as being correct, it was just an evaluation that they're better at being united and not criticising each other. that doesn't actually consider the correctness or otherwise of their beliefs, which is a seperate matter.
but i do agree that capitalism and socialism arn't as far apart as people think. they just want the market and the state to operate in different ways. they don't actually question the existence of these in the first place.
i would mention that there is quite a lot of philosophy that isn't dominated by plato as well. for instance, nietzsche, delueze etc. |
06-04-2007, 02:58 PM
| | stratocaster | | Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 932
| | | Deleuze in particular spoke out against Plato. was Gilles Deleuze not a chain smoking suicide? Typical, sad.
Republic is huge. What real political philosophy is developed enough to make a difference? |
06-04-2007, 03:06 PM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,596
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci But I am too cool for him, and his views are silly. And I am dismissive and arrogant. But having been on here a while, I've heard pretty much everything longshot has said before, FROM LONGSHOT, as well as from plenty of other sources. The Illuminati theory is kinda what I was saying earlier, it's more religious than logical because it would be impossible to disprove to anyone who starts from the standpoint of believing in it.
I've encountered a few conspiracy people, and they really don't think like we do. I accidentally triggered a discussion once on "how to counter the Okkam's Razor argument". How do you deal with a mindset like that, someone who regards the basic tenets of logic as obstacles to be circumvented with clever sophism?
It's just been my experience, from working in local government, that "They" are just individuals, like you and me, and that most things that have been attributed to secret conspiracies are much more likely to stem from human incompetence.
My mistake. It was just that you had appeared to make a similar argument earlier. I guess it's a problem the left has, that it holds itself up to as much criticism as its enemies (something which I think is less common with the right, who'll tend to overlook people's methods as long as what they're doing is "right").
Maybe, but I wouldn't particularly say that cut and pasting excessively long-winded articles is particularly engaging either. The people you see raving on street corners about socialism aren't exactly doing their cause any favours, no matter how much passion they might have for it. My cynicism might make me less active, but a lot of people who are active do things which have virtually no impact because they don't temper their passion with sense (kinda like I was saying with the MacDonalds thing, or like when Michael Moore insisted to see the head of some company at a building which he wasn't in).
But yeah, the BOO HISS thing is against trendy polemicism, which is about the only kind you'll find on-line because anyone with any real sense knows that, in this medium, talk is very very cheap. | Snappy post Ophiel, not at all pointlessly convoluted or pseudish. |
06-04-2007, 03:20 PM
| | #1 cunt-kicker-in | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northampton, UK:
Posts: 9,690
| | | All of your posts are too long, fag. |
06-04-2007, 03:47 PM
|  | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 783
| | Mali Stages Poor Man's G8 Quote:
Barry Aminata Toure heads the debt relief and anti-globalisation movement Jubilee 2000 in Mali, which organised the Siby meeting.
The summit will focus on Africa's problems
Speaking of the Canadian summit, she says: "Isolated from the rest of the world, the leaders of the world's eight richest countries will decide the destinies of millions of people on all continents, to serve the interests of multinationals, industrial countries and corrupt governments in the south."
| |
06-04-2007, 03:48 PM
| | Registered Member | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 783
| | Quote:
Organisers say their choice of Siby for the counter summit is symbolic.
Nearly 800 years ago in this same village, Emperor Soundjata Keita held an historic summit and drew up the very first constitution for the tremendously wealthy Mali Empire that covered much of West Africa.
That was at a time when several of those now wealthy G8 countries were still in the Dark Ages.
|
HAHA..how sad. |
06-04-2007, 06:04 PM
| | ya basta | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: shallow grave
Posts: 1,720
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot Deleuze in particular spoke out against Plato. was Gilles Deleuze not a chain smoking suicide? Typical, sad.
Republic is huge. What real political philosophy is developed enough to make a difference? | yeah he threw himself out of a window.
nietzsche inspired a whole new method of philosophy, like deleuze, foucault, derrida etc. |
06-04-2007, 06:52 PM
|  | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | | g8 is a diversion? |
06-04-2007, 06:57 PM
| | in a strange way, hch > u | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: THAWNG ISLAND
Posts: 6,312
| | | they hold the real meeting on atlantis |
06-04-2007, 10:42 PM
| | stratocaster | | Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 932
| | | < | |
