Thanks for all the thoughts all of you! I need to really think about it! I will let you know. I think its one of those shaded grey things.
And to someone who asked if I ate meat, no I don't eat meat.

Ahahahaha you're right, they told me in my Church Doctrine class that it's illegal
and i haven't bothered to check on it

I hate Catholic school

Well, what is Church Doctrine class about? It is forbidden by the church, could they have meant that?

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Tell me about it! But yours sucks worse than mine, at least my indoctrination only lasted til 6th year and then from age 13 and on,we kept the masses and prayer but religion classes turned to health ed. btw, the abortion thing not true, legally, only perhaps "religiously" forbidden.

Doctrine is meant to help you understand why catholics believe in God,Jesus, Holy Spirit. It's supposed to be a class where your opinions are accepted and people cant say their aruguments about the topics we talk about and try to come to a conclusion.
it's a weird class.

You start off saying if you're an atheist or not, then you debate your side and then the whole class is supposed to agree there is a God. After that you pick the core beliefs of the church and give documentation including secular sources and try to make the bible and jesus's life valid.

It's really hard to explain to be honest

Abortion came up because our final exam was to get in a circle and pick a topic and everyone had to debate their opinion and give bibile refs.
So I started abortion and I thought it was leagal, and I said that in my arugument and she stopped me and said "No, abortion isn't leagal." So yeah, I lost my argument and got a D for that

You're sure she meant illegal/legal in a civil sense, not a Church one? If so, you're owed a better grade. But that description really sounds to me like you were talking about, well, Church Doctrine.

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No, because she said, all abortions in america are illegal. At that time we were not talking about anything about the church, just laws

So oh well

Right and wrong doesn't really exist. All our notions of it are implanted by people who want to control us.

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Well then you were right. And to be honest, even if they were illegal in your state, that still doesn't make you wrong. Legality and illegality is entirely cultural. The only reason to refer to it in a debate about morality is if you're specifically debating one culture, or if you're trying to make the debate shit.

If abortion was legal? Sorry i'm not being funny but it is legal isn't it. All i can say is that if you make abortion illegal, and a woman really doesn't want the baby, she will find a way anyway. Isn't it safer that she does it under controled methods by doctors who know what there doing?

I've never had one. But one of my best friends have, i went with her to the scan, it felt weird. She wouldn't look but i did. I know it was a very painful experience for her but it was right for her at the time. Although i don't know that i could do it personally. I'm not pro-life, I think it is up to the individual, and the circumstances of the individual. I mean lets face it would you feel the same regardless of whether it was with a one night stand who you'll never see again, or a boyfriend you've been with for a year. It really does depend on the circumstances. There are financial ones too, and where you are in your life. For example i'm at uni at the moment, so i can't have a child. Although i do have a long-term boyfriend and therefore i try to keep myself out of that situation by using an implant and condoms

I am confused.
That's my stance, pretty much. There's something like 48 million abortions carried out annually worldwide. 20 million of these are illegal abortions. It doesn't matter what pro lifers think, bannign abortion isn't going to save babies, it'll just kill and maim women. It works with the harm reduction theory which is why it's stupid to compare abortion to robbing banks or murder etc which is something i've seen pro lifers do often.

It's very natural throughout the animal kingdom. The human race has been practicing abortion for as long as it's been practicing childbirth. Fish will eat their own eggs. Infanticide or abandonment is common practice too, in ancient cultures, and even in some parts of the world today, babies are exposed and left to die. I remember reading one charming story about a woman forcing poison down her newborn's throat because it was a girl.

For the majority of the pregnancy, no. Pain cannot be perceived until the neocortex has formed, which doesn't occur until the third trimester. Even then anaesthetics are used during abortion which cross the placental barrier. In many cases it's actually anaesthetics that kill the fetus prior to the abortion actually being performed. Aside from that a fetus at whatever stage cannot perceive pain in the way that we perceive pain, it has no societal concept of pain. Abortion is a quick procedure, also. In later abortion fetuses experience less pain/distress than a woman in labour or animals being taken to the slaughter house.

Bear in mind that the fetus is not the only being in the equation. The woman, the sentient, productive, active member of society certainly should have more rights and more consideration than a fetus. If a woman is not obligated to provide blood or organs for another person then she certainly isn't obligated to provide a womb. If someone came up to you and hooked themselves up to your body and started utilising your resources you'd be fully entitled to fight them off with lethal force. Same logic applies, far as i'm concerned. Besides, there are worse things (in my opinion) than the death of a fetus. Inflicting mental and physical torture on a woman by forcing her to gestate an unwanted pregnancy is one of them.

Actually, pregnancy takes a massive toll on the body. Judith Jarvis Thompson made a very good argument about the parallels of abortion and self defence. It also goes back to the fact that the right to bodily autonomy outweighs the right to life. Even the organs of the dead cannot be harvested without their permission or that of the family.

Because a one year old baby is not biologically dependent on the body of another. It's not feeding off the bodily resources of another through an umbilical cord.

Are you a doctor? The methods used are necessary. I know there is the controversy of partial birth abortion (which is actually a term invented by pro lifers), but they're usually employed in cases of hydroencephaly where the skull can measure twenty inches in diameter. There is no other way to remove the fetus than to collapse the skull, without causing major harm to the woman. Plus, if a woman begins to haemorrage during an abortion and the ob/gyn cannot see the uterus because it's obstructed by the cranium then he or she needs to collapse the skull to remove it as quickly as possible, or else the woman could bleed to death. Surgery is gruesome. Heart bypasses aren't exactly pretty to look at, but they shouldn't be banned because some people object to the aesthetics.

Well i personally think it's an issue of bodily autonomy. Going back to what i said earlier - no one else is obliged to share out spare blood, bone marrow or kidneys, regardless of situation or circumstance, so why should the womb of a pregnant woman be subject to different rules?

Then that's their business. Last time i checked consensual sex wasn't a crime. There isn't a morality police either.

Honestly, people are too concerned about the sex lives of other people when it's actually none of their fucking business how many people someone chooses to bang.

Actually, the history of the catholic church and abortion is a really interesting one.

Here's some links which explain it better than i could:

Historical abortion beliefs of the Christian church

Catholic History on Abortion

Additionally, just to be absolutely clear about why this procedure is usually performed, in almost all cases, the fetus was unquestionably not going to live. Also, it's usually not performed at all - it's an extremely rare procedure.

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Actually more fertilised embryos are killed using natural family planning method than any other. N.F.P. is endorsed by the Catholic Church. Certain times during a woman's cycle, an ovum can still be fertilised but it wont attach its self to the womb wall (there are diagrams for this and it gives reasosn exactly cause its hard to describe) and it does get passed out through menstration. It happens and that embryo is gone. It sounds like a load of codswalop coming from me but it was in some scientific journal, so trust me.

Yeah, the number is incredibly small, something like 0.2% i think. I know that only 1% of abortions in America are carried out past the 20 week mark. Pro lifers often represent it though as if all these 'irresponsible murderous sluts' are suddenly deciding in the middle of labour that they 'can't be arsed with it'.

Why woman want to kill cute babies?

Woman kill more people than all the wars the world had in its history.

Are woman the real killers?