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  #1  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:52 PM
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is your baby gay?

Furor Over Baptist's 'Gay Baby' Article

http://http://news.aol.com/topnews/a...00010000000001

NEW YORK (March 15) - The president of the leading Southern Baptist seminary has incurred sharp attacks from both the left and right by suggesting that a biological basis for homosexuality may be proven, and that prenatal treatment to reverse gay orientation would be biblically justified.

The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., one of the country's pre-eminent evangelical leaders, acknowledged that he irked many fellow conservatives with an article earlier this month saying scientific research "points to some level of biological causation" for homosexuality.

Proof of a biological basis would challenge the belief of many conservative Christians that homosexuality - which they view as sinful - is a matter of choice that can be overcome through prayer and counseling.

However, Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., was assailed even more harshly by gay-rights supporters. They were upset by his assertion that homosexuality would remain a sin even if it were biologically based, and by his support for possible medical treatment that could switch an unborn gay baby's sexual orientation to heterosexual.

"He's willing to play God," said Harry Knox, a spokesman on religious issues for the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay-rights group. "He's more than willing to let homophobia take over and be the determinant of how he responds to this issue, in spite of everything else he believes about not tinkering with the unborn."

Mohler said he was aware of the invective being directed at him on gay-rights blogs, where some participants have likened him to Josef Mengele, the Nazi doctor notorious for death-camp experimentation.

"I wonder if people actually read what I wrote," Mohler said in a telephone interview. "But I wrote the article intending to start a conversation, and I think I've been successful at that."

The article, published March 2 on Mohler's personal Web site, carried a long but intriguing title: "Is Your Baby Gay? What If You Could Know? What If You Could Do Something About It?"

Mohler began by summarizing some recent research into sexual orientation, and advising his Christian readership that they should brace for the possibility that a biological basis for homosexuality may be proven.

Mohler wrote that such proof would not alter the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality, but said the discovery would be "of great pastoral significance, allowing for a greater understanding of why certain persons struggle with these particular sexual temptations."

He also referred to a recent article in the pop-culture magazine Radar, which explored the possibility that sexual orientation could be detected in unborn babies and raised the question of whether parents - even liberals who support gay rights - might be open to trying future prenatal techniques that would reverse homosexuality.

Mohler said he would strongly oppose any move to encourage abortion or genetic manipulation of fetuses on grounds of sexual orientation, but he would endorse prenatal hormonal treatment - if such a technology were developed - to reverse homosexuality. He said this would no different, in moral terms, to using technology that would restore vision to a blind fetus.

"I realize this sounds very offensive to homosexuals, but it's the only way a Christian can look at it," Mohler said. "We should have no more problem with that than treating any medical problem."

Mohler's argument was endorsed by a prominent Roman Catholic thinker, the Rev. Joseph Fessio, provost of Ave Maria University in Naples, Fla., and editor of Ignatius Press, Pope Benedict XVI 's U.S. publisher.

"Same-sex activity is considered disordered," Fessio said. "If there are ways of detecting diseases or disorders of children in the womb, and a way of treating them that respected the dignity of the child and mother, it would be a wonderful advancement of science."

Such logic dismayed Jennifer Chrisler of Family Pride, a group that supports gay and lesbian families.

"What bothers me is the hypocrisy," she said. "In one breath, they say the sanctity of an unborn life is unconditional, and in the next breath, it's OK to perform medical treatments on them because of their own moral convictions, not because there's anything wrong with the child."

Paul Myers, a biology professor at the University of Minnesota-Morris, wrote a detailed critique of Mohler's column, contending that there could be many genes contributing to sexual orientation and that medical attempts to alter it could be risky.

"If there are such genes, they will also contribute to other aspects of social and sexual interactions," Myers wrote. "Disentangling the nuances of preference from the whole damn problem of loving people might well be impossible."

Not all reaction to Mohler's article has been negative.

Dr. Jack Drescher, a New York City psychiatrist critical of those who consider homosexuality a disorder, commended Mohler's openness to the prospect that it is biologically based.

"This represents a major shift," Drescher said. "This is a man who actually has an open mind, who is struggling to reconcile his religious beliefs with facts that contradict it."


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  #2  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:52 PM
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I know how I'm supposed to feel about this, but really, what kind of life would a homosexual kid have if he was raised by the kind of people who'd consider this stuff?
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:54 PM
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The kind that didn't involve existing, apparently.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:57 PM
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No. His boyfriend is though
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:08 PM
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Incidentally, "disentangling the nuances of preference" just isn't an option. While sexuality may be influenced by biology, gender really isn't. It's amusing that the same people who used to accuse science of playing God now want to do so themselves.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiel Ophiuci View Post
It's amusing that the same people who used to accuse science of playing God now want to do so themselves.
that's what i'm saying.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:15 PM
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i want my child to be gaayz.
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:37 PM
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i dont want any. However if i did, id want the campest baby ever!!
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:29 PM
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both of my babies are gay. i don't know where they get it. i really don't know what to think, because they are like brothers and boyfriends. don't fret. they were adopted.

i did name them pinkerton and gideon. so they did have a bit of a disposition.

i love my gay yorkies!!!!!! the bf gets irritated by it.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:23 PM
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PK, I heart you vair much


as for that article, ew. I don't see it as a pro at all that he is willing to accept that homosexuals might just be born gay if he is going to use that information to attempt to find a way to alter the "Gay genes" in a child. I don't think it's that simple at all. I think that it's not just a matter of someone being born gay I think it's gender identification that develops during childhood too and partially in some cases people are influenced by their environment.


I have a friend from a very conservative Christian household and my friend's older sister, Miriam, is so obviously a big butch lesbian. I doubt she has ever in her life kissed a girl, or most likely a guy for that matter and she's like 19 for fuck's sakes, however I remember that when I was a little girl I used to see Miriam as a boy because I got "boy-vibes" from her and I would like sorta flirt with her, without realizing then as I was like 6 years old that I was flirting. Anyways, I lived next to this family for most of my childhood and I always viewed Miriam as my friend's older brother, not sister. She took sports very seriously, joked around the way guys do, had very very short hair and dressed like a boy. I doubt her parents notice this at all. I mean, if they think people "Choose" to be gay, then how would they notice from the obvious facts that their daughter has the mannerisms of someone who identifies more with the male gender and is in all likelihood lesbian? I mean to say that they would never think Miriam would "choose" to be gay cus they think they have a big happy family and that their views are very imposed on their children, which is true...hence the reason why although it's been obvious to people who have known this family for years that Miriam is lesbian, she would never suggest it to any family member.

anyways, I lived next to this family and across the road from us was my mom's friend, Denise who was a butch lesbian. Despite being born-again Christians, my friend's family actually interracted with Denise. Infact my friend, her sister Miriam, and I would spend many nights in the summer in Denise's backyard, playing with her dogs, running through the sprinkler etc. Miriam ended up doing dog walking for Denise when she was about 16 I think...Apparently, Miriam once sorta tried to ask Denise about how she knew she was gay and then Denise changed the subject. Denise told my mom she was worried that if she encouraged Miriam to come out that the family would be angry with her and insinuate that Denise "turned" Miriam gay. it was a fucked situation. Everytime I go to my friend's house now and her sister's over I can't help thinking that she will lead one of the saddest lives I can imagine... I can see her in like two years, engaged to some guy she will never be sexually attracted to or romantically in love with. She will probably end up with this guy forever...or divorce him and end up with another guy...I can't see her ever asking out a girl that she likes, fooling around with a girl or coming out to her family, or even close friends for that matter. She could just choose a life of abstinence, but I think she's sorta expected to find a husband and start a family so she'll just end up doing that. Fucking christians...Anyways, growing up next door to Miriam and knowing what her parents stand for has given me proof that people are born gay (my best guy friend also is my proof of that) but the fact that Miriam's dad encouraged her to get as involved as she could in athletics (I mean, she had many trophies sitting around the living room and she took up many different sports at once and went to alot of Jays and Raptors games on the weekends) maybe that also shows her environment influencing her? Like...maybe she wouldn't identify so much with boys if she hadn't gotten into so many activities that she would associate with the male sex. However, she most certainly did not choose to be gay...

point is: even if one gene could be changed, who's to say that the child would not want to experiment later on with members of the same sex or through whatever experience, come to identify more with the opposite sex, thereby seeking to assume that role in the bedroom, AND what about love? how can your genetic makeup determine who you fall in love with?

Last edited by PrincessTrae : 03-15-2007 at 06:37 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2007, 07:45 PM
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Isn't that just AwFuL.... Now babies are gay....

Ohmigosh that is just AwFUl now everyone is all fuk up...
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:24 PM
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Im pretty sure my last egg was gay, cause i feel a little bit less gay this month.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2007, 10:31 PM
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This is stupid. What about the animals. Do they have a cure for their homosexuality?
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheLastRomantic View Post
This is stupid. What about the animals. Do they have a cure for their homosexuality?

The other day I saw two male dogs licking and sucking each other off...
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoanthropy View Post
The other day I saw two male dogs licking and sucking each other off...
WELL THEY OBVIOUSLY NEED TREATMENT GAY IS NOT THE WAY
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:59 PM
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This could actually be a blessing in disguise. By admitting that people are born gay, hasn't he also just admitted that God created them that way? OOOOPS!

The one argument against gays the christian right has held so strong has now been challenged by one of their own.

Relax, give them all enough rope to hang themselves. He's just exposed their throats so openly that their whole argument on gays may be finally taken down.

I just hope the media exposure will encourage him to talk more about the subject, and keep making that grave deeper.
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  #17  
Old 03-16-2007, 02:06 AM
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if one is against altering genetics, which the majority of evangelicals i've been exposed to are, then why should this be allowed? it IS altering "god's work", is it not?
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheLastRomantic View Post
This is stupid. What about the animals. Do they have a cure for their homosexuality?
Because we don't care so much about animal lives, if you find a gay puppy foetus, you can just flush the whole litter.
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Old 03-16-2007, 03:36 AM