Yes I would object to the killing of humans for any reason.

Please explain what your answer "no" refers to. I can't exactly connect what you are saying "no" to--the discussion of "killing in S&P, or the rights of the individual to make decisions that assist them to survive in their natural environment.

__________________

__________________

is that better?

I have noticed that the Morrissey "audience" (couldn't possibly use the term "fan"! Or "perform" cos we all know which animal does that) falls into two camps: the ones who'd put his turd in the Tate Modern given half a chance - the ones who post the photos of him looking like he wants to die when they're hiding in bushes with their disposable cameras and the ones who pretend to think he's an arse. You don't fool me. I bet you were one of the nutters in the 'Will Never Marry' video

Thanks.

Where should we as any society limit the individual to choices that have been guaranteed by our evolution? Should there be a universal law against eating some foods, wearing some types of clothing, and living in areas on the planet where people depend on natural resources for their survival?

How should this be accomplished? How would this be enforced? Natural parks, game preserves, endangered areas?

which choices have been "guaranteed" by our evolution?

Darwin's theory of evolution suggests that genes are the key to survival of any species. Some societies have survived do to their selective aibility to adapt to their environment by creating tools, methods, systems for exploiting the environment and competing with other species and tribes for dominance, which ensures this survival.

The genes do the choosing really, up until now. To save baby seals may lead to the extinction of a culture. What natural rights does our culture have over the rights of selected genes? In other words--has mankind evolved culturally and intellectually to the level that we can override natural forces of gene dominance and natural survival instincts?

seriously, you are so much like paladin/osho it's creepy. don't answer my question with a question. make a list. I don't really feel like reading through a lot of bullshit right now so please, a simple list of the choices guaranteed by our evolution. & please try to refrain from using the phrase "in other words". just fkn explain your shit in a simple clear way in the first place.

Adaptation
Natural selection
Gene dominance
Gene mutation

"In other words": one is about natural rights, the other about natural forces.

Sorry to make you work yourself into a frenzy. I just wanted to ask a few questions.

Thanks for thinking about this and replying to my posts.

none of these are "choices". try again.

In a gene sense they are choices. Just like the natural urge women have to have sex with the"bad boy". The urge and desire is an unconscious signal that the conscious mind can override or act upon--this is choice in biologic terms.

If the carrying capacity for seals in the northern regions were to change, maybe due to planetary climate change, food supply, competition, polution, etc., the breeding instincts of seals could also change. This drastic change would happen over a geologic time frame, but seals would find a way to adapt or die out--possibly mutations would alter their form and survival skills. Culling seals actually benefits natural selection and gene resilience.

If the Inuits lose the means to maintain their cultural heiritage in the north they may become culturally displaced geographically and dissolve into the greater cultures in lower latitudes. Technology and the global economy may resolves some of the demands made on these people to exploit the seal population. They too, have hidden natural forces working on their population: ie. the Native American no longer exploits the buffalo for survival by traditional brutal means. Industialized animal production is another issue closely tied to this issue.

Who are the companies that buy the furs and fund the hunts? With the backlash against the baby seal hunts, who still buys the fur? I'm very anti-fur (it's obsolete and cruel), but nobody will club the babes if nobody is cutting a paycheck.

Nasty pictures get attention, but stopping the money stops the problem.

So, who signs the checks?

So on a scale from 1 to 12, how "fun" do you think people partaking in the annual hunt find or it? Or is it a chore? Or a long dark night of the soul that they know will haunt them forever? I'm guessing 9.

__________________
Time is the distance that you can't return by miles.

I escaped somehow. Let's go

actualy [sic] I have quite a blessed life if I'm honest. I have many people to love, hate few and have few money problem's [sic].... What more does a person need? Oh yeah and I have some kind of humbleness unlike you of course ^_^ ~ CarefulCarpenter

Geez, what have I done, good discussion. I am basically unable to help with that discussion. eek.

I wonder why they club them instead of just breaking their necks or something. It makes no sense to me.

it's prettier

i think aesthetics is behind a lot of the seal clubbing thing. if they were ugly and red on purest white wasn't such an intense combination

i'm against killing animals for profit, but not to killing them to live. obv there's a lot of grey between these two positions

Sad news..
"Although the European WHITE COAT ban instigated in 1986 had a dramatic effect on the seal pelt market, it is a troubling fact that the world demand for seal pelts is now growing" http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/pelts.html

Buyers:


Norway 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005
Greenland
Finland
Hong Kong
Germany
Turkey
Russia
Denmark
Kazakhstan
Mexico
Subtotal 476,123 3,795,958 6,572,703 10,844,357 13,415,213
Others 75,507 529,346 684,191 821,518
Total 552,630 4,325,304 7,256,894 11,665,875 13,415,213



Help stop the seal slaughter by boycotting ALL products from the following companies.


Birger Christensen
Ostergade 38
DK-1100 Copenhagen K Denmark
Phone: 45 33 11 55 55
Fax: 45 33 93 21 35
bc@birger-christensen.com
Makes and sells harp seal fur garments. In their store, they also sell harp seal fur garments made by Prada and Dolce & Gabbana.

Prada
Prada S.P.A.
Via Andrea Maffei, 2
20154 Milan, Italy
Phone: 39 02 54 67 01

Prada (U.S. office)
Katherine Ross, V.P. of Communications
610 W. 52nd St.
New York, NY 10019
Phone: 212 307 9300

Dolce & Gabbana
Via Goldoni, 10,
20129 Milano, Italy.
+39 02 774271
Fax +39 02 76020600.

Gucci
685 Fifth Ave.
New York, NY 10022
212-750-5220
clientservice-europe@gucci.it

Versace
Donatella Versace
Versace S.P.A. Headquarters
Via Manzoni, 38
Milan ITALY 20121
Phone: 39 02 76 09 31
Fax: 39 02 76 00 41 22

more here:
http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/pelts.html

Hope u can read those figures. It's in detail on the site, the increases are astounding over the last few years.