hapless is a word that isn't used nearly enough around here. that's about to change.

here's a definition in case you're an idiot: Adj. 1. hapless - deserving or inciting pity; "a hapless victim"; "miserable victims of war"; "the shabby room struck her as extraordinarily pathetic"- Galsworthy; "piteous appeals for help"; "pitiable homeless children"; "a pitiful fate"; "Oh, you poor thing"; "his poor distorted limbs"; "a wretched life"

i'll say....

Liz Phair: Took a risk and fell on her face worse than any artist in the history of rock.
In the same way Madonna can never live down her reputation for making shitty movies, Liz is pretty much fucked. Even a decent album will be dragged down by the dogshit baggage of her last two. And her even having another decent album in her is a stretch.
At least Madonna has a few other careers to fall back on, musician being one of them.

I dare you to come up with somebody more hapless than Liz. And it can't be Courtney Love. Her downfall was fate and it suits her well, like bad puppies with their noses in the piss, so she isn't truly hapless.

No...I agree. I really don't think Liz has anything left to offer except maybe a jack johnson cover and some half nude shots. I still think Louise Post/ VS are still at least capable of making another good cd.

I'd say there are worse: Gary Glitter, Sinead O'Connor, Michael Jackson (although, not exactly rock), etc.

I'd vote for The Singing Nun if we're just going by the rock era and not only rock music. She went from being a devout Catholic nun to being a lesbian, promoted birth control against the church's wishes, went against their conservative views by agreeing with John Lennon's Jesus statement, and then she died with her lover from an overdose of alcohol and barbituates. She also owed taxes.

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Bahahaha.

I dunno about ol' Liz Phair -- her fame was always kinda ridiculous to me anyway, with each record she just looked more musically confused. When she hooked up with the Matrix I found it kind of a relief, really, to hear someone taking care of the poor girl. Plus I like good Avril songs and other such pop lab experiments.

Me, I hated Beck for years. Then I heard this interview with Nardwuar and have felt sorry for him ever since. He seems so lost and pathetic. I can't think of him the same anymore. He's a wretch in my mind.

Yeah, but my interpretation of hapless is that we almost feel bad for feeling pity for somebody, because that makes them all the more pitiful.

Gary Glitter and Michael Jackson suffered downfalls, but a lot of people will tell you they still got off too easy.

Sinead O'Connor was so nutty in her convictions that we would almost be afraid to feel pity for her.
Like how you don't want to coddle a wounded rattlesnake because it could still fuck you up.
Her career never recovered, but she's still fairly respectable these days. She gets good reviews and will always be an amazing singer.

Suffering consequences from a rebellious act or becoming a martyr is a lot different from shitting your pants in public.
This thread is to pay tribute to those who shat their pants in public.

How could I forget Ashlee Simpson.

Her thing on SNL was the epitome of haplessness. We know all these little sluts lip-sync, and they're so disposable that who really gives a fuck? I never understood how we were all being cheated.

So her shaming was pretty harsh. What with the jig and the lying her ass off.

Lisa Marie Presley.

a lot of people will say she can't sing, and a lot of that is because people compare her to her father and/or say she got a record deal without having an ounce of talent.

i know she has an absolutely gorgeous alto singing voice and just because she utilizes that more than a typical female soprano range, it just pushes her away from mainstream.

and have you read her lyrics? sure, a lot of them have to do with her father, but that's what's been her whole life. everywhere she goes, no one can treat her like her own person without mentioning her father, so it's always in her head. but her lyrics are very personal and beautiful.

i didn't much like the sound of her second album. i felt she was trying to hard to be mainstream rock and it ended up sounding very pop a la Kelly Clarkson. however, i think her first album is pure genius/alternative rock.

You're right! 'Hapless' is a word that needs to be used more. I like it

I agree with the Liz Phair comments. I never knew why anyone else was raving about her when I heard her music. I especially agree with the 'musically confused' comment. One minute she'd trying to be folk, next she's a 'rock chick' and then most of her albums sound like she's Britney Spears' alterego....you know like when Garth Brooks came out with the fake album and persona?

probably the Bee Gees. for doing that stupid Beatles movie. christ, what were they thinking.

other than that i love them, but what a desperate way to get more famous, yecch.

dave matthews.

britney
fred durst
Marilyn Manson.....

Just for that album we can add Garth Brooks to the list. It was just... I don't even know. He started rapping in his single. About war. And it was lame. It was like the rapping grandma except with really bad meter and rhyme. And he had the most emo hair.

Augh.

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Well, she isn't rock, but Britney fills the bill in all but genre.

liz rocks!!

i think exile in guyville is one of the most perfect albums of all time and if anything, it proves that she's got talent. i do think that when she started caring too much about what other people think, that's when she started flailing. but you know, her self titled album and somebody's miracle garnered some good reviews, albeit lukewarm reviews. she's nowhere near as vilified by the press or in the press, mainly because no one seems to be that aware of her. "why can't i", as candy pop as it was, is loved by a lot of people. just check how many freaking videos in youtube uses the damn song as soundtrack and it was used in films like how to deal and 13 going on 30. and those two albums had some really good songs. and to top it all off, the woman is just a good writer. one's ought to check out "retard camp" from one of her podcast deals. download it here. so if she decides that being a songwriter doesn't do anything for her anymore, well she can be a writer because that's one hot piece of literature she did there. anyone who thinks that she shit her pants in public for trying to get some mainstream attention for herself, well that person is clearly trying to be "so indie". and that's just disgusting.

so no, she doesn't deserve anyone's pity. because she's got mad skills.

Louise Post.

I'm suprised we all got this far without sayin Clove. We should be really proud of ourselves.

me

Of course I wish Liz didn't sell out with that self-titled cd, but no way would i say she's hapless. she will always be an amazingly talented songwriter, just listening to girlysound proves that...that kind of ability doesn't fade away.

An interview with Harp shed light on her perspective for her future: Mesmerizing - Harp, November 2005

This quote really stuck out:

"No, I'll never stop writing songs. I'll always make records. Will I be in the competitive market of the record business? No way. At least I doubt it. It's too grueling; it's either feast or famine.

My career fantasy is that I have enough success that the record business can't muck with me. Ideally, I could say, "I have a fanbase out there, I'm gonna tour from this month to that month. I'm gonna put out this record, and find some nice label that's kinda indie and have it not be about sales or videos." I want the kind of career where you would work, but not have to keep up with the trends. Yeah, I would like to work and not have to be trendy."

I agree with whoever said Louise Post. I used to like "Resolver", but nowadays I cringe after hearing "IV" (that So Weird song is awful and they made it a single ). I sometimes read the VS thread here (mostly for the commentary, which can actually make me laugh pretty hard) and it's just...i don't know, embarassing to watch her try to fill up venues and sell an album that really is pretty bad.

I would say Marilyn Manson. And its not even his fault. When the Columbine thing happened, people were looking for something to blame (because lord knows their kids couldn't have done it out of free will) and Manson was the perfect target.

Since then he's been made to look like this evil conspirator who is trying to turn America's youth into Satan-worshipping murderers. Bottom line, all the Christian sites saying these things he's done are most of the time exaggerated or just plain fabricated. It's no wonder why the Christians have such a bad rep, because the people that "speak" for them are way out of line.

So basically, Manson's career was brought down by the thing he had been fighting against. Ironic.

And on the subject of Liz, I don't think she's hapless at all. She made Liz Phair because she wanted to make a pop record. It sold great. Then Somebody's Miracle flopped because of, in my opinion, lack of promotion. Everything To Me and Somebody's Miracle could've been huge, just like Why Can't I and Extraordinary.

And Veruca Salt are happy with their status, fan range, and album. I personally like IV and so do alot of other people. For me there have been 3 eras of Veruca Salt: Nina, Resolver, and IV. The IV era seems to be starting with a clean slate.

It's evident that IV won't be a huge selling record, but it does have the potential to become a cult record. The shows that I've been to have had significantly large audiences for the venues. If they keep consistent with their line-up and their music style, I think they do have potential to gain a larger following.