kittyradio.com



kittyradio.com » listen & watch » gossip » Frances Farmer May Have Less Need for Revenge on Seattle Than We Previously Believed


Welcome to the kittyradio.com forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. Remove these ads when you register. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-21-2006, 09:32 AM
Livethruthat's Avatar
Livethruthat Livethruthat is offline
Coco Rodriguez
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 444
Livethruthat is infamous around these parts Livethruthat is infamous around these parts
Frances Farmer May Have Less Need for Revenge on Seattle Than We Previously Believed



We're skeptical. We read Snopes and the Straight Dope. We don't mistake Hollywood for a history book.

But every now and then, some random fact we've believed for a long time is proved wrong, wrong, wrong. Like today. We looked up famous Seattleite Frances Farmer on Wikipedia (no, certainly not to write trivia questions about her, why do you ask?) and noticed a section called "the false lobotomy claims."

Frances Farmer didn't get a lobotomy!?

But...but...it was in Shadowland! And the Jessica Lange movie! And Hollywood wouldn't lie...d'oh!

Then again, it's not like Wikipedia's an unimpeachable source, right? So we checked HistoryLink, and they say the same thing:

The allegation that Farmer was lobotomized was advanced by Seattle writer William Arnold in his 1978 book Shadowland, amplified by the 1982 film Frances, and has since been widely accepted as fact. However, Farmer’s family, friends, and others insist she did not undergo a lobotomy, by Freeman or anyone else.
She says she didn't get one. The guy who supposedly gave her one says he didn't do it. The author of Shadowland admits it was, um, fictionalized. Supporting details indicate that she didn't get one.

Frances Farmer wasn't lobotomized. You learn something new every day. We're happy to have this illusion shattered -- yay, brain integrity! -- but there's nothing like that suckered feeling when you find out you've believed bunk for years.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-21-2006, 12:50 PM
Fried~Butter Fried~Butter is offline
WallflowerInAFurBikini
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 330
Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of
No, she does so STILL need revenge on Seattle! I can't figure out why people think her experiences weren't bad enough without the fictitious lobotomy! Oh, and there were apparently no 'soldiers' sneaking in gang~raping her, (thank God) although somebody (one of her 'adopted nieces' I think?) said she was indeed sexually abused in the hospital, though fortunately not THAT badly ...

I've read that article 'debunking' Shadowland (a book I'd love to read but can't find; I only read her alleged autobiography. It's VERY hard to believe Farmer didn't write a word of it. Farmer's nephew, in one of those E! Hollywood documentaries, implied she DID write a little of it ~ the well~written bits. I've read some examples of her writing and she definitely had writing talent.)

ANYway yes, the author of Shadowland was a Scientologist (she said wearily) and in his quest to make psychiatry out to be innately evil he apparently wildly embellished Frances' horrific experiences ... which really didn't need to be embellished at all ~ her experiences in the mental asylum were atrocious.
Electric shock, insulin, and (if I remember correctly) hydrotherapy too (would that be the 'ice baths'?). For years and years without any real proof she was actually mentally ill.
Her major problem was simply alcohol. The meltdown that surpassed all other movie star meltdowns ("HAVEN'T I GOT ANY CIVIL RIGHTS? RATS! RATS! RATS!") was also brought on by one too many benzedrine benders. I suspect.
Great topic any way! I love you!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-21-2006, 07:06 PM
sweetheart_d's Avatar
sweetheart_d sweetheart_d is offline
kind of a big deal IRL
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: slamdancecosmopolis
Posts: 2,649
sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of sweetheart_d has much to be proud of
oh noes clove is gonna hafta rewrite her own personal mythology. drat.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-21-2006, 08:13 PM
Fried~Butter Fried~Butter is offline
WallflowerInAFurBikini
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 330
Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of Fried~Butter has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetheart_d
oh noes clove is gonna hafta rewrite her own personal mythology. drat.
The guy who did the Shadowlands debunking wrote on IMDB that he had the 'pleasure' (his scare quotes) of meeting Courtney circa 2004. She had time to rewrite it, or at least get it down pat in time for THAT 40th birthday.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-23-2006, 11:03 AM
alien she's Avatar
alien she alien she is offline
***WWW.VIPERROOM.ORG***
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in my house.
Posts: 2,628
alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livethruthat

Frances Farmer didn't get a lobotomy!?


Why make something like that up?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-23-2006, 10:20 PM
Bleeding Babydoll's Avatar
Bleeding Babydoll Bleeding Babydoll is offline
obsession for possession
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 292
Bleeding Babydoll has disabled reputation
she's wrote her own autobiography, (it really good) you can't really do that if you've had a lobotomy, and a lobotomy is never even mentioned in the whole book.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2006, 01:44 AM
bort's Avatar
bort bort is offline
Phil Goff
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,382
bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute
What, no lobotomy? For shame! I demand a full refund on my copy of In Utero.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:01 PM
concreteslate concreteslate is offline
Pants off
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 196
concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by alien she


Why make something like that up?
Exactly
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:40 PM
bort's Avatar
bort bort is offline
Phil Goff
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,382
bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by concreteslate
Exactly
She needed the attention. And the legend. And immortalisation in song. Thus: RESULT.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-30-2006, 04:02 AM
CounterfeitVoid CounterfeitVoid is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brokebitch Mountain
Posts: 751
CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute CounterfeitVoid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Babydoll
she's wrote her own autobiography, (it really good) you can't really do that if you've had a lobotomy, and a lobotomy is never even mentioned in the whole book.
I thought about that the whole way through the book- how could she recall all this stuff as a lobotomized person?!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-30-2006, 07:24 AM
Girl Germs Girl Germs is offline
SUGAR COATED SOUR
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,879
Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute Girl Germs has a reputation beyond repute
i'd really like to read about her. do you think her bio is the wsy to go or is there a better book?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-30-2006, 08:32 PM
concreteslate concreteslate is offline
Pants off
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 196
concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future
she had a frontal lobotomy, it is different than the lobotomies you may be familiar with. She was zombie like after, not a total vegetable. She could talk. It was not a science, by performing the barbaric procedure, they did not magically erase memory of the procedure and other nasty things but manage to just stick pins in her brain and fiddle about, THAT is the fucked up part. Some of you are acting like lobotomies work, or are somehow all the same. You know they are outlawed now (in America) , they do not fucking work.


And to you people who say she was doing it for attention, jesus christ you have a low opinion of humanity, or is it just women? Or artists? Not to mention, she did not get a chance to write all of her autiobiograhpy, she died.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-30-2006, 08:36 PM
concreteslate concreteslate is offline
Pants off
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 196
concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future concreteslate has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by bort
She needed the attention. And the legend. And immortalisation in song. Thus: RESULT.
yes, I know youre joking
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-31-2006, 09:19 PM
alien she's Avatar
alien she alien she is offline
***WWW.VIPERROOM.ORG***
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in my house.
Posts: 2,628
alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute alien she has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl Germs
i'd really like to read about her. do you think her bio is the wsy to go or is there a better book?
"Will there ever be a morning" is a great book. But the Jessica Lang movie is still my favourite source! Seriously
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-31-2006, 10:49 PM
bort's Avatar
bort bort is offline
Phil Goff
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Westport, New Zealand
Posts: 18,382
bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute bort has a reputation beyond repute
I know it's greasing but...

Have I ever mentioned that this thread has the best title ever?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-31-2006, 10:59 PM
Livethruthat's Avatar
Livethruthat Livethruthat is offline
Coco Rodriguez
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 444
Livethruthat is infamous around these parts Livethruthat is infamous around these parts
Thanks Bort ! ................... B O R T Y!!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-02-2006, 06:47 AM
InShreds's Avatar
InShreds InShreds is offline
Female Chauvinist Pig
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I am the Rain
Posts: 2,808
InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livethruthat


We're skeptical. We read Snopes and the Straight Dope. We don't mistake Hollywood for a history book.

But every now and then, some random fact we've believed for a long time is proved wrong, wrong, wrong. Like today. We looked up famous Seattleite Frances Farmer on Wikipedia (no, certainly not to write trivia questions about her, why do you ask?) and noticed a section called "the false lobotomy claims."

Frances Farmer didn't get a lobotomy!?

But...but...it was in Shadowland! And the Jessica Lange movie! And Hollywood wouldn't lie...d'oh!

Then again, it's not like Wikipedia's an unimpeachable source, right? So we checked HistoryLink, and they say the same thing:

The allegation that Farmer was lobotomized was advanced by Seattle writer William Arnold in his 1978 book Shadowland, amplified by the 1982 film Frances, and has since been widely accepted as fact. However, Farmer’s family, friends, and others insist she did not undergo a lobotomy, by Freeman or anyone else.
She says she didn't get one. The guy who supposedly gave her one says he didn't do it. The author of Shadowland admits it was, um, fictionalized. Supporting details indicate that she didn't get one.

Frances Farmer wasn't lobotomized. You learn something new every day. We're happy to have this illusion shattered -- yay, brain integrity! -- but there's nothing like that suckered feeling when you find out you've believed bunk for years.
Frances Farmer had SHOCK TREATMENTS, and was raped repeatedly by interns at the facility in which she was kept and others who paid to fuck her. The labotomy shit was all for the drama effect.

Last edited by InShreds : 09-02-2006 at 06:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-02-2006, 06:55 AM
InShreds's Avatar
InShreds InShreds is offline
Female Chauvinist Pig
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I am the Rain
Posts: 2,808
InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute
By the way, did 'we' mention you post writings like a faggot ass Truman Capote on drugs that didn't exist before he died?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-02-2006, 07:18 AM
InShreds's Avatar
InShreds InShreds is offline
Female Chauvinist Pig
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I am the Rain
Posts: 2,808
InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute InShreds has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by bort
Have I ever mentioned that this thread has the best title ever?
If you did. It's your own personal opinion. It's not such a great title.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-02-2006, 04:03 PM
LadyShambles's Avatar
LadyShambles LadyShambles is offline
razzmatazz
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: York
Posts: 739
LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute LadyShambles has a reputation beyond repute
I can;t be arsed to read hte thread, but the title is genious
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments