having a useless degree, how do you cope? - Page 3

Sophia_ · #41 07-17-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoloresHaze

I basically want a job or a career path that is respectable by society

Then you might want to consider becoming a Master Craftsman. In the early '80s a study was done asking this very question: "What professions do you respect the most?"

Master Craftsman was top; Doctor was number 2.

Insurance and car salespersons were low on the list.

If you want the Mercedes and the apartment, go for a commissioned sales position and learn to adapt to any value system that is rewarded with money, status, and entitlements. A degree won't be much more than a tool to get into higher social circles. The truly rich mostly hire people with high degrees rather than earn them themselves. Lack of integrity becomes a plus for those willing to do what it takes to get rich.

Now, a master craftsman has a different kind of respect. You'll have to become one to understand; this is not something that can be taught.

Ophiel · #42 07-18-2008, 11:06 AM

I never realised how black and white everything could be til I read a bit of Sophia_ brand wisdom. Fuck my degree, my lecturers clearly knew nothing.

Piss artistry is apparently a master craft.

Sophia_ · #43 07-18-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel

I never realised how black and white everything could be til I read a bit of Sophia_ brand wisdom. Fuck my degree, my lecturers clearly knew nothing.

Piss artistry is apparently a master craft.

"Those who master sophistry, master civilization; consequently, they rule over little with eternal treasure"
~~carefulcarpenter

It's not how high we climb;
It's not how far we row;
It's not how much gear we takes with us;
It's that we go.... together;
It's the journey

"It's not the degree that makes the woman or the man on the journey through life; it's the woman in the soul of a man that takes him, to a higher degree"
~~carefulcarpenter

Sophia_ · #44 07-18-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophiel

I never realised how black and white everything could be til I read a bit of Sophia_ brand wisdom. Fuck my degree, my lecturers clearly knew nothing.

Piss artistry is apparently a master craft.

Yes, they were worthless lecturers if they didn't inspire you to go out into the world to master something; not piss all over everything in sight, but to make a masterful difference; to recognize the gifts within and develop them for the benefit of the common good. Any fool can grab for themselves the material treasures of life, for there are multitudes of opportunities subsidized my hard working and dedicated sevants like carpenters, nurses, factory workers........ but did those lecturers reach into the souls of those with exceptional intellect and inspire them to become more than just masters of sophistry and lies?

"A great master has no slaves; no subjects to lead; no wealth to count; just all to give, and all to lose"
~~carefulcarpenter

chicken cat · #45 07-18-2008, 02:28 PM

i dont find degrees particularly useful frankly.

Wildwoman · #46 07-18-2008, 02:43 PM

Yesterday there was a Wall Street Journal article about how a college degree isn’t as useful as it used to be. However, this doesn’t mean that you don’t need one – we’ve reached the point where a degree doesn’t guarantee a decent income, but not having one pretty much guarantees not having a decent income.

Sophia_ · #47 07-18-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

Yesterday there was a Wall Street Journal article about how a college degree isn’t as useful as it used to be. However, this doesn’t mean that you don’t need one – we’ve reached the point where a degree doesn’t guarantee a decent income, but not having one pretty much guarantees not having a decent income.

There is always a shortage of people who can think and work independent of supervision. What Wildwoman may be unknowingly saying here is that having a degree used to be a tool for which people believed they would be fairly rewarded for their knowledge and accomplishment; but now people are controlled more easily through punishment than reward-- now that the information age has made information more accessible to the masses and to those who understand its value and how it can be manipulated. A degree never guaranteed that a person could think, or were able to work independently; what it did mean was that people felt empowered by knowledge and believed that they would be rewarded. Now rewards are revoked for the lack of accomplishment and discipline. The old standards of reward and punishment are obsolete because old structures cannot monopolize the information that kept a powerful few on top; systems that maintained the flow and access to updated information which kept order and structure in the power hierarchy and its beneficiaries, now become a threat via the same empowerment that knowledge and credentials have had, only now for many more people.

There still is a small percentage of the populace that can think for themselves, just as before, so now the standards change to fit the order which maximizes the advantages for the few. In hindsight one can see how values adapt to conditions. Still, the thinking conscientious person is overlooked and hyper-criticized, no matter what credentials they have obtained.

"If you're not with us you're against us"
~~ G.W. Bush

brakko · #48 07-18-2008, 06:05 PM

No more mind games for brakko.

brakko · #49 07-18-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoloresHaze

you know what I'm talking about, phylosophy major, art major, art history major, that sort of thing. What happened when you got your degree and went out into the world??

For me it was just low life jobs that didn't require any education and just failure at everything. I'm a photography major, and I think it's completely useless. I thought that University could teach me to be an artist but there is no such thing. Artists don't need to go to college, they just make art. If you need to go to college to learn how to make art, well your not an artist, don't waste your time. It's my take on it and I had to learn it the bad way. Because that's just me.

So I did what any practical girl would do and I've gone back to college and right now I'm studying Advertising and Marketing and graphic design. I've just begun, I'm like one month into it and I love AND I looked at the job adds today and there are like a zillion things this new career path is going to allow me to do, so I hope I can do it right with this one.

So, tell me your horror stories.

I'm inundating coppermine fields

brakko · #50 07-18-2008, 06:12 PM

He found a way to make money.

Wildwoman · #51 07-18-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_

What Wildwoman may be unknowingly saying

I generally try to ignore you because you feed on any attention, but do not fucking pretend to be able to parse meaning unknowst to me out of what I said, you sanctimonious asshole. I knowingly said exactly what I said.

I'm not of the opinion that a degree does or doesn't connote knowledge or wisdom. Never have been. I didn't mention it because it's a given, and not really relevant to this discussion. If I thought college was only a path to material reward I certainly wouldn't have majored in Literature, and I got a great deal out of my college experience that had nothing to do with the degree or the classes, but that's not the topic at hand.

A college degree used to be a means of economic mobilty - the GI bill changed America after WWII. Ramon is being his usual elitiest asshole self whining about wanting a Mercedes Benz and an amazing apartment, but you do need a decent job just to live, and if a college degree won't do that anymore, that's a big problem, and people who can't go to college will be left even further behind.

My place of employment has in the last few years become a major player in developing programs for kids who aren't succeeding in traditonal high schools, and despite our success with this, we are seeing that without college, it may not make that much of a difference. I'm not talking about luxury cars and magazine spread apartments, I'm talking about being able to crawl out of GRINDING FUCKING CRUSHING POVERTY.

Sophia_ · #52 07-19-2008, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

I generally try to ignore you because you feed on any attention, but do not fucking pretend to be able to parse meaning unknowst to me out of what I said, you sanctimonious asshole. I knowingly said exactly what I said.

I'm not of the opinion that a degree does or doesn't connote knowledge or wisdom. Never have been. I didn't mention it because it's a given, and not really relevant to this discussion. If I thought college was only a path to material reward I certainly wouldn't have majored in Literature, and I got a great deal out of my college experience that had nothing to do with the degree or the classes, but that's not the topic at hand.

A college degree used to be a means of economic mobilty - the GI bill changed America after WWII. Ramon is being his usual elitiest asshole self whining about wanting a Mercedes Benz and an amazing apartment, but you do need a decent job just to live, and if a college degree won't do that anymore, that's a big problem, and people who can't go to college will be left even further behind.

My place of employment has in the last few years become a major player in developing programs for kids who aren't succeeding in traditonal high schools, and despite our success with this, we are seeing that without college, it may not make that much of a difference. I'm not talking about luxury cars and magazine spread apartments, I'm talking about being able to crawl out of GRINDING FUCKING CRUSHING POVERTY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

I got a great deal out of my college experience that had nothing to do with the degree or the classes, but that's not the topic at hand.

I kinda thought this WAS addressing the topic at hand--coping with a useless degree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

you sanctimonious asshole

Now THIS may not be the topic at hand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

do not fucking pretend to be able to parse meaning unknowst to me out of what I said

Isn't it rather hypocritical of you to parse meaning out of what you THINK I think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

My place of employment has in the last few years become a major player in developing programs for kids

This is like pointing out that Haliburton employees are caring people because they are assisting displaced Iraqi youths to go to America to college to study Oil Resource Development.

Wildwoman · #53 07-19-2008, 02:55 AM

1) The topic at hand was making a living;

2) Your presence in any thread causes that to be on topic;

3) I didn't parse a goddam thing, that's what you said;

4) We're not a for-profit, but I wouldn't expect you to understand actually helping real people with real problems.

DoloresHaze · #54 07-19-2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

I generally try to ignore you because you feed on any attention, but do not fucking pretend to be able to parse meaning unknowst to me out of what I said, you sanctimonious asshole. I knowingly said exactly what I said.

I'm not of the opinion that a degree does or doesn't connote knowledge or wisdom. Never have been. I didn't mention it because it's a given, and not really relevant to this discussion. If I thought college was only a path to material reward I certainly wouldn't have majored in Literature, and I got a great deal out of my college experience that had nothing to do with the degree or the classes, but that's not the topic at hand.

A college degree used to be a means of economic mobilty - the GI bill changed America after WWII. Ramon is being his usual elitiest asshole self whining about wanting a Mercedes Benz and an amazing apartment, but you do need a decent job just to live, and if a college degree won't do that anymore, that's a big problem, and people who can't go to college will be left even further behind.

My place of employment has in the last few years become a major player in developing programs for kids who aren't succeeding in traditonal high schools, and despite our success with this, we are seeing that without college, it may not make that much of a difference. I'm not talking about luxury cars and magazine spread apartments, I'm talking about being able to crawl out of GRINDING FUCKING CRUSHING POVERTY.

but why do you have to insult me?? i9t's a shame, I admire you and you think so lowly of me

And you are wrong, I'm not elitist at all, I just want the good things in life. They say the best things in life are always free and that's true but since my looks are less than stellar and I'm gay, I guess the odds of me finding love and children are rather dim, so what am I supposed to do?? well if I can't get the best things at least I want a really good comfortable life.

I don't want to have to deal with the bullshit you have to deal with while using public transportation and taxis, nor do I want a mitsubishi, I want a mother fucking Mercedes Benz. I don't know if I'll ever be able to get it, but that's what I want. I'm not coming from an elitist perspective, I just like nice things and having to use public transportation, specially in a third world country, well that is not nice.

But I do agree with the rest of what you've said. Having a degree doesn't guarantee success or anything like that, you still have an uncertain future at best, but not having a degree, unless you have an extraordinary talent like amy winehouse or rockefeller or whatever, pretty much guarantees a hand to mouth existence for the rest of your life, or probably worse.

Sadly, with all the technological, economic and social advances in the last few years, the gap between rich and poor is getting wider by the minute. And having a useful degree is the closest thing to one way out ticket out of poverty or middle class or whatever.

I know that many photographers make it big but I haven't been able to get much from my photography degree.

However, a few days ago I opened the job adds, and I already saw a lot of jobs for wich I could be a potential candidate because of my new career that didn't involve being a douchebag nobody taking photographs of millionaire women at the country club at their fucking hat soirè or whatever.

So anything that can spare me such humiliation and give me the chance to be at the top, well I'm going to take it. If that makes me elitist, then I guess I'll have to accept that.

Sophia_ · #55 07-19-2008, 01:07 PM

Wildwoman seems like she is living her dream seeking a spiritual root helping the disadvantaged, yet has derogatory things to project onto me, a common working stiff--in every thread she sees me in. DoloresHaze on the other hand accepts me for what I am, and is pursuing a dream that includes material status and personal renumeration for work done. All three dreams require a sense of vision and motivation; Were these qualities developed in college or is this a trait of the person? Has college sufficiently launched us to a successful path in life?

Sophia_ comes here to teach, preach, and learn;
A project to broaden his/her perspectives;
And of those who want to contemplate life's more difficult directives;
Wildwoman comes here for validation from the sisterhood,
Seeking a feeling of intellectual superiority and sociocentric pride;
DoloresHaze comes here in search of acceptance;
And answers to his/her suffering;
And to express a beautiful creative side

How do you see these three avatars?

*note: Rancheria comes here to perform satanic duties

Wildwoman · #56 07-19-2008, 02:14 PM

Ok, I could have been a little fairer to Ramon, but I always stay up all night Friday just because I can and then do weird things like try to explain what I mean to someone who either cannot understand or pretends he can't on purpose just to be annoying. I do think based on other things I've seen you say that you have elitist issues, but none of that means that you aren't entitled to want nice things for yourself.

I don't know what public transportation is like in Panama, it's non-existant in most of the US, which is one of the reasons I love NYC. Even rich people frequently take it because driving around Manhattan takes forever - rich people who don't take the subway usually have a driver, so they can work in the car. I also don't know how much the WSJ article applies outside of the US, it is only looking at this country, and of course everything I know from work only applies here as well. But, if it matches what you've experienced, it probably applies to where you are as well.

Sophia_ · #57 07-19-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildwoman

you sanctimonious asshole.

sanctimonious asshole

Adjective
sanctimonious (comparative more sanctimonious, superlative most sanctimonious)
Making a show of being morally better than others.
hypocritically pious
Holy, devout

[/quote]