true that'

I still don't understand. English is not my first language so sometimes I don't understand certain concepts.

Are you talking about knowing more as compared to a person that never went to college or university?? If that's what you mean well I stand by my point that some degrees will get you nowhere.

I studied an art major in photography, and solely based on that fact I know more and have more status if you will than someone that never went to university and doesn't have a degree but to put it bluntly, a photography major is not going to get me into LatinAmerican Vogue by itself.

When i went into the world my degree made NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever, I was just one more of the photographers(wich are almost all non educated and without degrees) working the street at a newspaper, living a hand to mouth existence and just being a nobody. My degree didn't garantee an office or a certain status and respect, and it wasn't a one way ticket out of living a hand to mouth existence. My degree gave me no guarantee(sp?) and no real vehicle for a high powered career or anyting like that.

I don't want to be the photographer on the corner taken photos of the big shots at social events and all that, I WANT TO BE THE BIG SHOT, and a degree in photography is not going to get me that, so that's why I'm studying for a more efficient degree if you will, or a degree that is going to be of some tangible use in going up the ladder of the world.

I feel the same way, I look back at my last three years and it's like what the hell was I thinking? I have no idea.

But I'm all kabbalah about it, I'm grateful because no way in hell would I have gone into advertising if I hadn't failed so miserably at that other thing, so everything happens for a reason I guess.

One can learn more from experience on life's path than by owning a credential. In many ways the degreed person is limited by convention and rapid change. Only the person in the flow really knows what's really happening. Most everyone who fits in nicely is established at one level or another in the system, and therefore the "Lie" is different at each of these levels. What do I mean by the "Lie"? With so many artists and writers here at KR I'd think someone could answer this question. What does Sophia_ mean by "the Lie"?

A little background if you don't know me very well: I've been self-employed for the most part since college; I've done hundreds of projects--most of them I designed or engineered. Many, many people see me as an artist. I have no degree in art. Some people here at KR see me as a lunatic; some see me as a genius; some don't see me at all. From this thread I would say that other artists don't have any desire to communicate with me. Others at KR love to disagree with me and look for my faults; but I am an artist of sorts and I earn my living doing what I love-- and what most of my customers dream that they could do. I never lie-- they do. Most of my credentialed clients lie with ease. Most desire credit or authority--validation from the system. A true artist lives outside the system and attempts to awaken others through inspiration for the beauty and richness of the human experience. I'm not sure, but I think a credential may be a clue that someone isn't really inspired by God, but rather by ego. Great artists are divinely inspired; they may not admit it in public, though. I mean--this is the gift one shares with the world! Talent is not a right or a special privilege; it may be that which is gained through grace alone.

credential -documentary evidence of someone's right to credit or authority

I, myself, on the other hand, have wings--no credentialed authority necessary . I am free to live and work with passion and creativity. I do not need a place in the hierarchy of the Lie. As a result of people seeing me as an uncredentialed artist/handyman I do not have to live up to any false expectations. Now, if too many people read and responded to my poetic works on the internet, I might be so busy teaching people how to design and create work projects for themselves that they wouldn't be motivated to support the educational system which provides credentials to a demanding public. People might not lie, or surely wouldn't lie for those they work for, or to those they work for.

Credentials can be limiting to one's spirit and creativity. Here at KR this surely must be true, because I am one of a rare few who can write creatively, now and then.


"Blinded(entitlement) by self-importance(credentialed).... the visionaries(authority) of society haven't the vision(creativity) of a blind musician(imagination) nor the perception(intuition and artistic talent) of a churchmouse_(spirituality)"
~~carefulcarpenter(common man)


Passion is God

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

well I've always moved in creative environments and I can create but am I an artist??

and what about people who are not artists?? are they detached from God? are they not special?

I'd be happy to discuss philosophy or spirituality issues in the spirituality forum.

It is said that there are many more times the number of motorcycle jackets sold than the number of motorcycles.

Every child is an artist. Where does creativity come from? Is the credential hiding the "Lie"?

__________________
Marerophilia:
A depth of love that youth can seldom appreciate or communicate;
A love that never can die for it is a wild seed living inside us, and it is what it is;
Love: that which bonds the reality of one's being to the mystery of the unknown;
Wildflowers: evidence revealed."
~~carefulcarpenter

I've just finished a music degree. A music degree pretty much qualifies you to teach other people to get music degrees. Since you're not required to learn to play an instrument up to any great standard, it doesn't even particularly qualify you to teach music lessons. I don't care because I didn't do the degree in order to be more employable, but I can imagine it'd be kinda galling to anyone who did.

That said, completing a degree, doing a dissertation etc., does indicate that you're capable of motivating yourself over a long period, writing and reading to a certain standard, using IT and such, something which school qualifications in this country (apparently) increasingly don't do. Employers seem to realise that.

So while a specific degree may not have a huge amount of value as a sign of knowledge, it does work as a sign of competence, intelligence and skill in acquiring knowledge and using it.

Maybe most motorcyclists own several jackets? There's probably more shoes sold than there are feet; doesn't mean that people are lying about how many feet they have.

Absolutely not being a dick, but I too have always wondered what language grads do with their degrees and if their jobs pay well? Anyone?

I guess you could get a job as a language teacher or a translator. More people use translators than you'd think.

This is so interesting. I went to a liberal arts college which meant everyone got a philosophy, art, economics, history, political science, etc degree. They're employed. The problem with unemployment (well, currently it just seems plain difficult to find a job) is that people don't have work experience or that in the last two years of college/university, they did not focus in on an aspect of their field or their interests they would have liked. Many became investment bankers or consultants (and not only the economics majors), but others went to work for companies like Google (like a couple of English and History majors I know) doing non-techie stuff.

So I guess my question to you is what job do you want? And is the problem finding those jobs or not getting hired for them?

What I found upon graduating college is that you're kind of left to your own devices. Many people I knew had parents' friends who connected them to jobs. The job resource center at college wasnt truly helpful for those in the arts. But what they would be helpful would be at looking at your resume and making it look great. Also, they were pretty good at leading you in the right direction, at least.

__________________
"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

I'm a translator, and can safely say that relying exclusively on a degree in languages will not get you a job as a translator. Usually agencies and companies require people with a degree in a specific sector (e.g. chemistry), and good knowledge of two or more languages. If you have a master's or some sort of translation training even better, but usually they just assume that you'll master translation techniques once you're in. Which is bullshit, but anyway. If you want to be a translator, choose an area and specialise, then go and live abroad for years.
It's true that you can teach languages with a degree in languages - I did it for two years and hated it - but that also depends on what languages you take. In Britain for example, you can't simply teach German or Spanish, you MUST know and be willing to teach French as well, otherwise you'll really struggle to get a job.
Amity, up here in Scotland the only thing you can do with languages is customer services. I've been looking for jobs in England too, and the situation doesn't seem to be very different. But, as I said, my language is not French so I don't really know.

__________________

now that I know that I'm breaking to pieces
I'll pull out my heart and I'll feed it to anyone.

And another thing, that's actually unfortunate and I really would have been in the same position had circumstances been different, is that to intern or to get relevant work experience you often have to work for very little, or not paid at all, or you have to be able to move for a few months to work somewhere. That is really tough if you have family responsibilities and need to make money. That is especially tough if you are working to get yourself through school. Not to mention that if you're in these positions relocating for a few summer months is impossible.

So anyway, I do realize that it is tough to align all of your stars or whatever to make things happen. I am finding that more and more since I myself have no safety net and moving forward feels harder and harder.

I guess my point with all of my posts are...don't get discouraged. Like other posters have pointed out, you do have an advantage with a degree.

__________________
"We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation," she told the crowd.

Fair enough, I was basing my info on my aunt's experience, and thinking about it she got her degree a good thirty years ago when less people had them. She's done freelance translating in Spanish ex-pat communities and some work for the police over there and here. It makes sense that you'd want someone with some specialist knowledge, now that you mention it, but I'm thinking a police one wouldn't necessarily need it.

I mainly suggested it because I know how infuriating it has been to have teaching and fuck all else suggested as a career option for me. Even people who've taught me, and have seen how I react to public speaking, suggest it, and it annoys me, makes me wonder if every degree student gets the same spiel or if it's just that mine genuinely is useless.

Personally, I'm after a McJob that won't get in the way of my using my sparetime to pursue my degree subject.

I made a conscious decision about halfway through the course that I'd only go for graduate jobs that had more than a passing connection to what I wanted to do. A lot of the graduate jobs I've seen advertise just don't seem worth it, they pay too little for the amount of responsibility and the complexity of the work. If you're a gigging musician, you need a 9-5 job that's just kind of there, not something that's going to follow you home or stay on your mind when you're trying to do something else.

But with a degree, you can get pretty much any generic office job you want, because they know they won't have to train you in IT, that you can probably type and so on.

Yeah, 30 years ago becoming a translator was a lot easier. Nowadays competition is fierce, and the lack of regulations in the field make it sooo easy for anyone to just get up and say "I'm a translator!". You're right though, I HATE that people just assume that I'll end up being a teacher again. It's even more saddening that I probably will

__________________

now that I know that I'm breaking to pieces
I'll pull out my heart and I'll feed it to anyone.

I wouldn't mind so much, but it's more that they're assuming I've done a course just so I can get a job teaching it. I mean, what's the point spending three years and god knows how much money acquiring knowledge which you can then only use in a job that involves teaching it to someone else, so that they can go on to do exactly the same?! Also, two of my media minor teachers got their degrees on the course they're now teaching at the university they're now teaching it at, and I'm fucked if I'm staying in Northampton for that.

I guess theoretically anyone can just say "I'm a translator"; the only danger is that they might suck at it, and the whole point of hiring a translator is that you don't know whether they suck at it (you know what I mean).